Posted on Jul 3, 2024
Have you had to give a senior NCO a mediocre NCOER?
Posted Anonymously
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As a senior rater I rate quite a few NCOs and a few Senior NCOs. I recently gave my senior rater comments to a senior NCO that was surprised he was rated poorly. I am surprised that he is shocked by this. Nonetheless, you really can't fight senior rater comments due to them being based on potential. Have any of you dealt with this. To me this NCO struggles to do the right thing but thinks they are top block material.
NCOER
OER
Posted 4 mo ago
Responses: 11
I mean, if the rated SNCO never received counseling sessions talking about their issues....I could see why they would be surprised.
Does your comments jive with what the Rater wrote?
Does your comments jive with what the Rater wrote?
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(Join to see)
It has been made clear that they performed poorly. The issue is that the rater is biased due to a SFC being buddy buddy with the PL to the point they they are on a first name basis in front of their Soldiers. The SFC made up comments for the PL to use knowing that they were inflated. I spoke to the Rater and let him know that some of these comments were false but I can not tell him what to write due to command influence.
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MSG (Join to see)
(Join to see) - Well, HQDA will more than likely kick it back. Should be real fun after that.
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MSG Thomas Currie
(Join to see) - From your explanation here, it seems your problem is the PL not the SFC.
It's not really unusual for a senior NCO to be providing bullet comments for their rater, but of course it is the rater's responsibility to ensure the both the accuracy and relevance of the comments that appear on the NCOER.
In the situation you describe, the SFC is performing to the expectations of his PL -- if those expectations are too low, that is a matter between you and the PL.
If you are the Senior Rater for the SFC, that seems to indicate you are the Rater for the PL who is rating him. While you cannot tell the Rater what to say on the NCOER, you have an obligation to counsel the PL about his professional responsibilities so that the PL is not surprised when you write his OER. Have you been counseling the PL about the performance of his personnel? Have you now counseled the PL about what you seem to feel is a failure of professionalism and integrity?
It's not really unusual for a senior NCO to be providing bullet comments for their rater, but of course it is the rater's responsibility to ensure the both the accuracy and relevance of the comments that appear on the NCOER.
In the situation you describe, the SFC is performing to the expectations of his PL -- if those expectations are too low, that is a matter between you and the PL.
If you are the Senior Rater for the SFC, that seems to indicate you are the Rater for the PL who is rating him. While you cannot tell the Rater what to say on the NCOER, you have an obligation to counsel the PL about his professional responsibilities so that the PL is not surprised when you write his OER. Have you been counseling the PL about the performance of his personnel? Have you now counseled the PL about what you seem to feel is a failure of professionalism and integrity?
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One of my favorites was: This sergeant is destined to go through his career pulling on doors marked "Push" . . .
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I realize they always act surprised, every time, but I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't ask;
During the rating period, did you have at least two counseling sessions with support form (per AR 623-3) or even just discussions with this senior NCO where you were frank and forthcoming about their potential, perhaps even with some guidance and mentorship that didn't stick?
To answer the posted question, on several occasions, I have had to give NCOs mediocre or worse NCOERs, all of those were backed up with multiple rater counselings and very frequent guidance and mentorship throughout the rated period, and they did still act surprised at the end. Sometimes the lower performing suffer from the lowest self awareness.
During the rating period, did you have at least two counseling sessions with support form (per AR 623-3) or even just discussions with this senior NCO where you were frank and forthcoming about their potential, perhaps even with some guidance and mentorship that didn't stick?
To answer the posted question, on several occasions, I have had to give NCOs mediocre or worse NCOERs, all of those were backed up with multiple rater counselings and very frequent guidance and mentorship throughout the rated period, and they did still act surprised at the end. Sometimes the lower performing suffer from the lowest self awareness.
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(Join to see)
The challenge here is that the rater made the Senior NCO out to be Audie Murphy's mentor. In reality, they are one of the worst NCOs I have ever seen. They have a chip on their shoulder that makes their actions believed to be above question.
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SGM (Join to see)
(Join to see) - I can understand how the PL ended up with an SFC Dunning-Kruger as a PSG, wouldn't be the first time.
They often build a career of falsely inflated evals despite lack of knowledge, skills, abilities and results by putting all their effort into being an otherwise "great guy", and frequently talking themselves up to their raters.
It sounds like all the PLs should sit in on an LPD covering AR 623-3, objectivity, and Article 107; false official statements.
They often build a career of falsely inflated evals despite lack of knowledge, skills, abilities and results by putting all their effort into being an otherwise "great guy", and frequently talking themselves up to their raters.
It sounds like all the PLs should sit in on an LPD covering AR 623-3, objectivity, and Article 107; false official statements.
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