Posted on May 30, 2015
MAJ Senior Observer   Controller/Trainer
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Gays in the military 19344
According to a report in the Washington Blade and then republished in the British media, the DOD is set to announce as early as next week a major revision to it's Equal Opportunity Policy that will include sexual orientation as a Protected Class. What do you think, RP? Is granting Protected Class status conducive to maintaining good order and discipline in a fair and equitable manner for all Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, Marines, and Coast Guard personnel or is it giving a certain class of personnel more protections than others?
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Responses: 33
CPT Multifunctional Logistician
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Technically, this change does not protect gays and lesbians specifically. It just renders it illegal to discriminate against a SM based on their sexual orientation-whether the SM in question is heterosexual or homosexual. This is really a no-brainer move. A good leader and/or battle buddy does not discriminate based on such trivial attributes as sexual orientation. One team, one fight!
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LCDR Margaret Trombley
LCDR Margaret Trombley
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Wait just wait when these protected classes start to get promoted solely because of iy
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CPT Multifunctional Logistician
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CW5 (Join to see) Those are very thought-provoking points. I suppose I find it difficult to imagine a straight person claiming to be gay for the purpose of a frivolous complaint. Regardless, I was tracking that most complaints have to be heavily substantiated with evidence.
With respect to gay people identifying their sexual orientation on the ERB/ORB, is it possible that a lot of the reluctance to "come out of the closet" can be attributed to their fear of discrimination and reprisal? It seems to me that when gay people openly identify as gay, straight people respond with disgust and act as if homosexuality is being thrown in their face.
Finally, as I alluded to in my comment, straight people are ostensibly protected as well by this change (since it prohibits discrimination based on sexual orientation, which does not necessitate straight-on-gay discrimination).
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CPT Multifunctional Logistician
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LCDR Margaret Trombley Ma'am, as I stated in my comment, this change does not explicitly create a "protected class." It seems to simply prohibit open discrimination based on sexual orientation. I have (perhaps misplaced) faith in the military's evaluation systems that justice will prevail and the cream will indeed rise to the top (whether the cream in question is gay or straight).
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CW5 Regimental Chief Warrant Officer
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CPT (Join to see) Ma'am, coming out of the closet is a personal choice that not all will want to do for whatever reason they have until they are ready. As to frivolous complaint, is it really frivolous when the new normal is to state "we just elected/appointed the first "name your color" "name your gender/identity" to the office of "name your office". It seems that is the criteria these days rather than who is the best qualified. My rationale: it is posted in the media the color and gender of a person more than their qualifications. That means we have a focus and inertia in government that will most likely extend to the armed services. I understand 'needs of the Army', I don't understand Affirmative Action, even if we fail to recognize that we are doing just that without saying it out load.
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SGT Richard H.
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My humble opinion is that being granted "protected class" status accomplishes the exact opposite of what this particular demographic is trying to accomplish. True equality doesn't require separate protections.
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CW5 Regimental Chief Warrant Officer
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So the whole EO program vision should be: An equal opportunity for all to be given the wherewithal for success without regard to any item or characteristic that may distinguish them from another. I see what you are saying but you have to spell it out for the lawyers and ACLU.
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SGT Richard H.
SGT Richard H.
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Actually, SSG James Doherty in re-reading your question, that kind of IS my view. Most EO programs list multiple conditions, demographics, etc., which in my opinion is a little bit self-defeating because by listing protected classes, the program is by default not protecting any other class not listed.
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SSG Public Affairs Specialist
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@SSG James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4',
While I hold a similiar view as to what you present...when communicating, it would be a major improvement to not use the term “ lifestyle.” What is a gay "lifestyle”? The manner in which LGBT people live their lives is as varied as the manner in which heterosexual people live theirs.

The gay and transgender people I know have “lives”, not “lifestyles”. If you feel compelled to condemn the way others express their sexuality, it might be more honest to stop using silly clichés. What many people really want to say is “I don’t like the concept and thinking about same-sex sex.” Simple, then don’t participate in it. And, if it bothers you to simply think about people having same-sex sex, easy, don’t think about it.

Your “heterosexual lifestyle” is not the same as other heterosexual men. I have a life, not a lifestyle, and I conduct my own according to my faith, values and ethics. Likewise, it is also true with gay and transgender people. Grouping about 5% of the population together under one “lifestyle” umbrella is foolish.

Just as it wouldn’t be appropriate to reduce me or you to a sex act, the same is also true for my gay and trans friends. We are each humans with beautiful diversity, that includes the way we express ourselves sexually, romantically, and emotionally.
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SGT Richard H.
SGT Richard H.
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SSG (Join to see) While I don't disagree with what you're saying, I think it's really a semantic issue. In this case, I think that "lifestyle" pretty much just gets used interchangeably with "demographic" or any other grouping term. I don't think there was any intent to offend.
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MSG Operation And Capabilities Development Nco
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All Soldiers, should be treated fairly. EO covers the big 5, adding another shouldn't change anything if we, as leaders, do our job to give respect and fairness to all our troops.
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MSG Operation And Capabilities Development Nco
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What is naive here? Discrimination, unfair treatment - none of it is needed in the military. Period. Religions, race, sex, sexual preference... Treat Soldiers with respect and dignity regardless... Nothing naive in there.
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Gay, Lesbian, Bisexuals Soon To Be Granted Protected Class Status By DOD: Is this policy consistent with the UCMJ and Service Culture?
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SGT Darryl Allen
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There are a lot of people saying that this is a victory for gay people in the military, but really, this is a victory for all members of the military. Essentially what this says is that, regardless of your sexual orientation, it cannot be used against you. While the is overtly aimed at homosexuals due to the conflict that it sometimes causes, it can be equally used to protect heterosexuals from being denied favorable actions based on their sexual orientation (which I'm sure would be a rare case, but I've actually seen homosexual favoritism in a platoon of mine). And I don't see this being an issue with most SMs anyway, I've found that while a lot of people in the military are quite outspoken about their dislike of the homosexual lifestyle; most of them do not cause any problems when working with gay people.

I see this as a welcome change, and rightfully so, all SMs deserve fair and impartial treatment by their seniors as well as their fellow SMs. I understand that this is a controversial topic, especially in the military where Christianity holds sway as the predominant religion among SMs, but your fellow SMs are more than their sexual orientation, the same way they are more than their skin color, or religion, or sex; they're brothers and sisters voluntarily serving in the greatest military in the world; and they're doing so right beside you. So you should have their back, because they've probably got yours.
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MAJ Senior Observer   Controller/Trainer
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A most interesting take on this matter, Specialist Allen; thank you for sharing your perspective!
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SGT Darryl Allen
SGT Darryl Allen
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MAJ (Join to see) , thanks sir! I just want to point out that, while many people see these Protected Classes as solely a win for special interest groups and minority populations in the military, the protection extends to the majority as well. Everyone stands to gain something in these circumstances, but it does a lot to make sure the playing field is more even for those people that most often feel the sting of prejudice.
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CPT Battalion S 1 Oic
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Seeing as there are still problems with racial discrimination, gender discrimination & religious discrimination, it seems only logical to add the gay/lesbian community to list. Until people can accept people for who/what they are, it is necessary.
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SPC Jacob Pierce
SPC Jacob Pierce
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Way to save your brass there captain.
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MAJ Keira Brennan
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I am a happily married gay woman retiree. I guess my only thought is that hate crimes have been legislated because of the inherent bias on a particular group. I hear the lovely pejoratives "dyke", "fag", and "queer" and am constantly reminded I am no where near that idea American hegemonic (white, straight, married, Christian). I think I hear the stuff that I do because of what I am. As for the UCMJ. Good question. I'd like to think that the Military is EEO enough. But I retired before DADT repeal so I am undecided.
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MAJ Senior Observer   Controller/Trainer
MAJ (Join to see)
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Thanks for sharing, Keira.
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MAJ Keira Brennan
MAJ Keira Brennan
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You bet. Thank you for the thoughtful discussion.
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SA Harold Hansmann
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I am not homophobic nor am I a homosexual, as long as people keep their religion, sexual orientation, and what ever else to themselves, welcome to my foxhole. As long as the enemy dies for his country and we help him achieve that goal. I really don't care what your preferences are.
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CW3 Network Architect
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What do you consider "keeping it to onesself"?? Would you be okay with me coming to you and saying "Boss, I need to go, my wife has been in a car accident", while a homosexual soldier is not allowed to tell you "Boss, I need to go, my same-sex spouse has been in a car accident"?
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SSG Cannon Crew Member
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Well said!
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SA Harold Hansmann
SA Harold Hansmann
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I would consider "keeping it to oneself", not hitting on me or preaching the "word of God" at me.
If someone is have problems with their spouse and needs an ear, I have no problem listening or if you wanna pray to your deity in the foxhole, I have no problem with that, just keep it to yourself.
I am not unsympathetic to your plight, I just don't swing that way. I do have friends and family members whom are homosexual, I am happy for them. I also have family members and friends whom are Christians, I am happy for them also. Neither of these preferences are part of my lifestyle.
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TSgt Weather
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I am sad to see that, as of this posting, there are 11% of the respondents who think I shouldn't be allowed to serve.

I am pleased that the comments have more or less been saying that a person should be judged by their capabilities versus personal factors. I agree that we shouldn't need any protected classes, but I also have seen a reality that argued otherwise. I've seen a unit where black Airmen were given tougher penalties for minor infractions than their white counterparts. I've been fortunate that, aftwr coming out with the repeal of DADT, my unit hasn't had any problems. I can't say my unit is typical of the military, much less the Air National Guard.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
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In the words of Bill & Ted, "Be Excellent to Each Other."

I understand the need for protected classes, though don't agree with it. I would hope that we can eventually evolve past the need for them.

That said, I answered "Other" because it may be a matter of necessity. I think it's something that should definitely "expire" however we still have episodes of Racism, and heaven help us Sexism hasn't been stomped out yet, so putting a date on it won't work.

If someone is discriminating based on something as frivolous as X/Y/Z, we need to get them out of the service where they do harm elsewhere.
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PO3 Nichalas Enser
PO3 Nichalas Enser
>1 y
Nicely said, Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS .

This country, in particular, is all about fairness and equality. If there is a need for a group of folks to have protections, because they are currently having issues, then there should be a rule.

No one should be discriminated against for any reason. Not Christians, Muslims, Lesbians, Latinos, Straight men, Straight women, trains folks, et cetera. Until everyone is treated with the basic respect and honor, that all deserve, such protections are a necessity. Time and again, the Supreme Court has upheld this, as the Constitution is quite clear.

Some folks just do not realize that there is no 'them', 'we' are all in this, together. This is, especially true of the men and women of the armed forces, right? We should all be able to count on one another, whether a person is or . If a person's evaluations are being impacted, or, worse, they are suffering meal-treatment, by someone with a negative view of some non-military element of their make-up, then they need an avenue for recourse.

Looking forward to the day that no such protections will be necessary!

Regards,

Nikk
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SGT Nia Chiaraluce
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I honestly think making a protected class for LBGT soldiers is getting away from where mission focus ought to be and needs to be. I am not saying bring back don't ask don't tell, but in my professional opinion my sexuality has nothing to do with my duties as a US soldier. Sexuality to me in this context a distraction taking away from our mission focus. Now if we want to focus on rights I strongly believe should be fought for regarding LGBT soldiers and families, I do think their children should have the same rights straight married couples do. With that injustice aside I think EO should be viewed as equal opportunities for both male and female soldiers. Regardless if they are gay, Muslim, transgendered or believe polyamory.
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