Posted on Mar 16, 2022
For those who have been in a while, what advice would you give to help someone overcome a lapse of judgment?
2.04K
19
17
1
1
0
Unfortunately I am in a unit where leadership is almost non existent and everything you need is more or less "figure it out" on your own with little to no guidance.
I made a mistake as an E5 , 6 years back that resulted in a GOMOR and NCOES school drop (1059-R) for misconduct ( DUI). I've since been promoted and pcs'd twice and reinlisted indef.
My TIG is almost 2 years. I'll be boarding for my first look in less than 1 1/2 years.
Recently all I can think about is how I'm going to be judged on the board and how heavily my past will weigh on the board panel members decisions. II'lI think about what I can do to improve so they don't see me for who I was then but who I am now. I plan on getting airborne, air assault and an AA degree complete before year and starting a bachelors. I plan taking on any additional duties that I can on return from my like eo,mft, or mrt. I've been making good gains in fhe gym and look forward to the acft
.
I think alot about how dug my own grave and knock myself for it but at the same time, i feel that my leaders were fair and gave me a chance to bounce back. it's been hard thinking back lately and wondering if all the progress I've made since has been in vain.
I made a mistake as an E5 , 6 years back that resulted in a GOMOR and NCOES school drop (1059-R) for misconduct ( DUI). I've since been promoted and pcs'd twice and reinlisted indef.
My TIG is almost 2 years. I'll be boarding for my first look in less than 1 1/2 years.
Recently all I can think about is how I'm going to be judged on the board and how heavily my past will weigh on the board panel members decisions. II'lI think about what I can do to improve so they don't see me for who I was then but who I am now. I plan on getting airborne, air assault and an AA degree complete before year and starting a bachelors. I plan taking on any additional duties that I can on return from my like eo,mft, or mrt. I've been making good gains in fhe gym and look forward to the acft
.
I think alot about how dug my own grave and knock myself for it but at the same time, i feel that my leaders were fair and gave me a chance to bounce back. it's been hard thinking back lately and wondering if all the progress I've made since has been in vain.
Career Advice
Advice
Senior Leaders
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 6
6
6
0
Game the system.
It sounds like your biggest risk is over working yourself in an attempt to redeem your actions. Kudos, but with that in mind, "game the system" and chase successes with a focus on quantifiable successes that check boxes rather than focusing too much on the "spirit" of the good deeds.
Don't over stretch yourself with too many additional duties and perfect ACFT scores if it comes at a cost of ill performing any of those. ONE stellar additional duty performance annotated in bullets in an NCOER that catches a reviewer's eye is worth a lot more than 3+ additional duties just mentioned in passing.
Remember........... you will be judged on a board packet. So your actions need to find their way into that packet.
**********
Generally....... I think TIME is going to be your biggest ingredient to your goal, and how that time is used is going to be measured in NCOER bullets, school 1059's comments, ACFT scores, awards, and all things iPerm'd.
If it doesn't get in the board packet it did not happen.
YOU need to write your own NCOERs. You need to hand your rater your NCOER bullets on a silver platter, and put it on them to reign in the comments. I learned this from WO's I rated. They of course couldn't log into EVAL system and do it, but they e-mailed me everything I could need to cut and paste every section of the Eval template. I much appreciated it, and generally used it as guidance, and reigned them in accordingly. If they handed me nothing they would have got a very generic Eval and I would have moved onto the next one in my que ASAP.
Research what goes into an E7 promotion packet. Do things that fluff up that packet. Have I said that enough already?
It sounds like your biggest risk is over working yourself in an attempt to redeem your actions. Kudos, but with that in mind, "game the system" and chase successes with a focus on quantifiable successes that check boxes rather than focusing too much on the "spirit" of the good deeds.
Don't over stretch yourself with too many additional duties and perfect ACFT scores if it comes at a cost of ill performing any of those. ONE stellar additional duty performance annotated in bullets in an NCOER that catches a reviewer's eye is worth a lot more than 3+ additional duties just mentioned in passing.
Remember........... you will be judged on a board packet. So your actions need to find their way into that packet.
**********
Generally....... I think TIME is going to be your biggest ingredient to your goal, and how that time is used is going to be measured in NCOER bullets, school 1059's comments, ACFT scores, awards, and all things iPerm'd.
If it doesn't get in the board packet it did not happen.
YOU need to write your own NCOERs. You need to hand your rater your NCOER bullets on a silver platter, and put it on them to reign in the comments. I learned this from WO's I rated. They of course couldn't log into EVAL system and do it, but they e-mailed me everything I could need to cut and paste every section of the Eval template. I much appreciated it, and generally used it as guidance, and reigned them in accordingly. If they handed me nothing they would have got a very generic Eval and I would have moved onto the next one in my que ASAP.
Research what goes into an E7 promotion packet. Do things that fluff up that packet. Have I said that enough already?
(6)
(0)
CSM William Everroad
SFC Casey O'Mally - SSG (Join to see) and don't forget that you are also being rated on developing those Soldiers assigned to you. When filling out your support form do not forget to mention the gains they have had in CIV/MilEd, APFT/ACFT, technical skills/certifications and promotion preparedness. Push them to be a better you.
(2)
(0)
CPT (Join to see)
SFC Casey O'Mally - I didn't say I refused to do my job (evals). What I said is if not given guidance by the rated soldier then they will get a generic Eval from me based on the limited knowledge I will have on hand at the time of writing the eval as I have dozens in my que.
It's is mind boggling how indifferent many rated soldiers are of their Evals.
While the design of the Eval process is lost in Utopia somewhere the reality of time causes much different practices in reality.
I like many, have a list of various Bullets in a word document I pull from. These Bullets have in one form or another passed the HRC test and made it to a final upload in iPerms in the Eval process. That list has evolved over time as my HRC approval and push back experience has changed as well.
I am literally not thinking what's the best thing I can say about someone's Eval, I'm thinking what will HRC let pass the process, and how do my bullets line up with the performance of the category relative to their peers.
Go with the flow NCO's and Officers are done a very big disservice in the Eval process when they are given cookie cutter Evals by their raters. It wasn't until I was a CPT that I started seeing how one's UMR billet assignments line up with the SRB/ERB/ORB and how those also link up with the Evals.
There is a lot of oblivious raters and rated soldiers not entirely in tune with how to manage the Eval process and how it is incorporated into one's career.
I as a Company Commander of 160+ while a 1LT was equally oblivious to how important it is to line up UMR billets with assignments with recommended developmental assignments, ect.... and the flow of that on the Evaluation.
It's is mind boggling how indifferent many rated soldiers are of their Evals.
While the design of the Eval process is lost in Utopia somewhere the reality of time causes much different practices in reality.
I like many, have a list of various Bullets in a word document I pull from. These Bullets have in one form or another passed the HRC test and made it to a final upload in iPerms in the Eval process. That list has evolved over time as my HRC approval and push back experience has changed as well.
I am literally not thinking what's the best thing I can say about someone's Eval, I'm thinking what will HRC let pass the process, and how do my bullets line up with the performance of the category relative to their peers.
Go with the flow NCO's and Officers are done a very big disservice in the Eval process when they are given cookie cutter Evals by their raters. It wasn't until I was a CPT that I started seeing how one's UMR billet assignments line up with the SRB/ERB/ORB and how those also link up with the Evals.
There is a lot of oblivious raters and rated soldiers not entirely in tune with how to manage the Eval process and how it is incorporated into one's career.
I as a Company Commander of 160+ while a 1LT was equally oblivious to how important it is to line up UMR billets with assignments with recommended developmental assignments, ect.... and the flow of that on the Evaluation.
(1)
(0)
SFC Casey O'Mally
CPT (Join to see) With all due respect, sir, (and I mean that sincerely, not dismissively), in my opinion if you are rating a Soldier and you have "limited knowledge on hand" about them, then you are not doing your job.
Limited knowledge on hand means that you are not doing your counseling, means you are not directly observing their performance, means you are not actively developing that Soldier. Which is your job if you are rating them.
I will grant you that I have never rated more than 15 Soldiers at any given time. So my experience may be different than yours. But I never, not once, had a difficult time giving a true, accurate, and well-worded evaluation for any Soldier I was supposed to rate. I had a couple that I "inherited" an eval for which were more difficult, but the reason they were difficult were because I did NOT have the opportunity to properly do my job. Even then, they still got a proper eval, it just took more time and effort.
And I have written at least 100 evals over the years and literally never had an eval kicked back by HRC. I know it happens, I am not trying to say it doesn't. But if the rater knows and understands the regs, I have never seen much difficulty. So the "passes HRC muster" excuse to use cookie cutter bullets sounds more like a cop-out than a valid excuse.
Again, I completely understand that I am speaking anecdotally here. My experience was likely vastly different from yours. But, based on my (admittedly different) experience, I have to whole heartedly (but respectfully) disagree with your approach and rationalization.
Luckily for both of us, this is just my opinion... and you don't work for me so it ultimately matters not at all to how you do or did conduct business.
Limited knowledge on hand means that you are not doing your counseling, means you are not directly observing their performance, means you are not actively developing that Soldier. Which is your job if you are rating them.
I will grant you that I have never rated more than 15 Soldiers at any given time. So my experience may be different than yours. But I never, not once, had a difficult time giving a true, accurate, and well-worded evaluation for any Soldier I was supposed to rate. I had a couple that I "inherited" an eval for which were more difficult, but the reason they were difficult were because I did NOT have the opportunity to properly do my job. Even then, they still got a proper eval, it just took more time and effort.
And I have written at least 100 evals over the years and literally never had an eval kicked back by HRC. I know it happens, I am not trying to say it doesn't. But if the rater knows and understands the regs, I have never seen much difficulty. So the "passes HRC muster" excuse to use cookie cutter bullets sounds more like a cop-out than a valid excuse.
Again, I completely understand that I am speaking anecdotally here. My experience was likely vastly different from yours. But, based on my (admittedly different) experience, I have to whole heartedly (but respectfully) disagree with your approach and rationalization.
Luckily for both of us, this is just my opinion... and you don't work for me so it ultimately matters not at all to how you do or did conduct business.
(0)
(0)
CPT (Join to see)
SFC Casey O'Mally - Firstly, I'm reserve, so I get paid 1/10 the amount of active duty with 100% of the liability. Secondly, I'm done chasing down folks for their benefit. Everyone gets that input from me up front, and it's on them to produce their support forms. I remind them enough. Thirdly, everyone gets rated relative to each other. No one is getting shorted in the rating scheme. No one is getting Box 3 below standard without supporting documentation from me.
The Evals are a database system. Period. There is a narrow left/right limit the bullets can be. There are up/down limits as well. One cant give top blocks outside their profile, and one can't give below standard without supporting documentation.
The objective is to populate the Eval database with your unit's scheme and keep it on time as directed by HRC without going out of bounds of the Eval System.
Where a huge part of us fail to realize is there is a design behind the scenes and so few of us are managing ourselves to the optimal script we are all ideally supposed to follow for our MOS/Branch. So that when our packet is up for promotion our SRB, Evals, Assignments, training certificates and 1059's all fit nicely into the predetermined pathway for ourselves when we are looked at relative to our peers a promotion is a forgone conclusion.
The Evals are a database system. Period. There is a narrow left/right limit the bullets can be. There are up/down limits as well. One cant give top blocks outside their profile, and one can't give below standard without supporting documentation.
The objective is to populate the Eval database with your unit's scheme and keep it on time as directed by HRC without going out of bounds of the Eval System.
Where a huge part of us fail to realize is there is a design behind the scenes and so few of us are managing ourselves to the optimal script we are all ideally supposed to follow for our MOS/Branch. So that when our packet is up for promotion our SRB, Evals, Assignments, training certificates and 1059's all fit nicely into the predetermined pathway for ourselves when we are looked at relative to our peers a promotion is a forgone conclusion.
(0)
(0)
Do some volunteering like Big Brothers or coaching little league etc. It will show signs of willingness to take on leadership to guide young minds. It will also show you have moved past your questionable behavior and are striving to do better.
(3)
(0)
1
1
0
Are you in an Airborne unit or going to one? If not, you're probably not going to Airborne school. Being in an Airborne unit usually impacts how the board looks at you, being an Airborne qualified five jump chump, does not improve your look.
When you have a Referred file in your iPerms, anything endind in -R or GOMOR, the board mist review it while grading you. Even if it happened as a PFC the board must look at it while grading you. Most people who have sat in the board will tell you that the more time that passes, the less it impacts the score. But no matter how much time passes, it will be reviewed and it will impact your score. You can try to get the GOMOR moved to the restricted file, but your AER-R will still say you were released for a DUI.
How do you overcome? Promotions at the SSG and above level isn't about overcoming. It's a competition with limited slots. Read the board AARs to see what packets were the most compey, then do that. They almost always say "challenging position" and "civilian education". With your AA you're only competitive if your peers were combat arms at the SSG level. You have SSGs and SFCs applying for the Army's Master Programs in National Defense for Intel people. These are the people you're competing against with your associates.
You sound like you have the mentality of doing well and accomplishments gets you promoted. Everyone at your level who is competitive is doing well. Everyone else has degrees, badges, and good PT scores, that's what you need just to get a seat at the table and be taken seriously.
Senior NCO positions are about leadership. The Army doesn't care how well you do the technical portion of your job, you're expected to be an SME by now. They want to see how you affect the organization. Yeah you have a degree, but have you successfully ssisted all your Soldiers in enrollment for civilian education? How many credit hours did your team accomplish this year?
Yes you probably have a good ACFT score. But what about bringing your squad average up 50 points?
You need to focus less on your accomplishments and more on improving the organization as a whole. Then get that into your NCOER. How many people did you affect? What echelon of command did you affect? What was the benefit to the Army?
If you're going to be Airborne in an Airborne unit, go to Jumpmaster school. You impact lives every time you work duties. If you're an Airborne Mi you'll usually end up in USASOC, there is an opportunity to teach Jumpmaster MTTs which has an even greater impact on your ability to affect and improve your unit
When you have a Referred file in your iPerms, anything endind in -R or GOMOR, the board mist review it while grading you. Even if it happened as a PFC the board must look at it while grading you. Most people who have sat in the board will tell you that the more time that passes, the less it impacts the score. But no matter how much time passes, it will be reviewed and it will impact your score. You can try to get the GOMOR moved to the restricted file, but your AER-R will still say you were released for a DUI.
How do you overcome? Promotions at the SSG and above level isn't about overcoming. It's a competition with limited slots. Read the board AARs to see what packets were the most compey, then do that. They almost always say "challenging position" and "civilian education". With your AA you're only competitive if your peers were combat arms at the SSG level. You have SSGs and SFCs applying for the Army's Master Programs in National Defense for Intel people. These are the people you're competing against with your associates.
You sound like you have the mentality of doing well and accomplishments gets you promoted. Everyone at your level who is competitive is doing well. Everyone else has degrees, badges, and good PT scores, that's what you need just to get a seat at the table and be taken seriously.
Senior NCO positions are about leadership. The Army doesn't care how well you do the technical portion of your job, you're expected to be an SME by now. They want to see how you affect the organization. Yeah you have a degree, but have you successfully ssisted all your Soldiers in enrollment for civilian education? How many credit hours did your team accomplish this year?
Yes you probably have a good ACFT score. But what about bringing your squad average up 50 points?
You need to focus less on your accomplishments and more on improving the organization as a whole. Then get that into your NCOER. How many people did you affect? What echelon of command did you affect? What was the benefit to the Army?
If you're going to be Airborne in an Airborne unit, go to Jumpmaster school. You impact lives every time you work duties. If you're an Airborne Mi you'll usually end up in USASOC, there is an opportunity to teach Jumpmaster MTTs which has an even greater impact on your ability to affect and improve your unit
(1)
(0)
SSG (Join to see)
Yes I am in an airborne unit. I'm in the USASOC community. Thank you for your feedback.
(0)
(0)
Read This Next
Continue with Facebook 
Continue with Google