Posted on Aug 22, 2014
Feelings on displaying the Confederate flag on your POV or person while on a military installation?
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Recently, I had a long and heated discussion with a fellow veteran about this issue. I don't know for sure whether a branch-specific reg or a DoD-wide reg exists that prohibits/allows personnel on a military installation to display the Confederate flag on their personal vehicle or on their person (e.g. a belt buckle). Maybe this is a base-specific policy and left to the judgment of the installation commander. Display of the Confederate flag is a divisive issue and people often feel really strongly one way or the other. But today, it is still a relevant topic and touches on other military leadership/discipline areas, including the actions of one member deeply offending another member -- regardless of whether said action is legal/authorized. That can create huge problems in a military unit, and this happened in a unit I personally served in. So, below are my questions for the RallyPoint community about this issue.
Please try to keep comments professional (don't attack one another) and explain your thoughts as best you can.
Questions:
(1) How do you feel about the Confederate flag being displayed on the vehicle/person of a service member if he/she is ON post? How does your opinion change if the member is OFF post?
(2) What does the Confederate flag symbolize to you personally? What do you think it can symbolize to other people around you who may perceive it differently?
(3) If you have personally experienced a military-related situation where a symbol/flag caused someone to be offended, what happened and what did you/would you have done as the leader?
I look fwd to everyone's thoughts on this. Personally, I have some strong feelings about this issue, though I don't want to bias people's answers upfront. Please be as honest as possible.
Tag: SSG Emily Williams Col (Join to see) 1SG Steven Stankovich SSG Scott Williams 1LT Sandy Annala CPT (Join to see) SSG V. Michelle Woods MSG Carl Cunningham
Please try to keep comments professional (don't attack one another) and explain your thoughts as best you can.
Questions:
(1) How do you feel about the Confederate flag being displayed on the vehicle/person of a service member if he/she is ON post? How does your opinion change if the member is OFF post?
(2) What does the Confederate flag symbolize to you personally? What do you think it can symbolize to other people around you who may perceive it differently?
(3) If you have personally experienced a military-related situation where a symbol/flag caused someone to be offended, what happened and what did you/would you have done as the leader?
I look fwd to everyone's thoughts on this. Personally, I have some strong feelings about this issue, though I don't want to bias people's answers upfront. Please be as honest as possible.
Tag: SSG Emily Williams Col (Join to see) 1SG Steven Stankovich SSG Scott Williams 1LT Sandy Annala CPT (Join to see) SSG V. Michelle Woods MSG Carl Cunningham
Regulation
Policy
Respect
Confederate Flag
Edited 10 y ago
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 326
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This issue is impact vs. intent. The intent of the individual may be Southern pride, but the impact can be different based on each individual person. It’s the nonverbal message that is important and this is where individuals can cross into the realm of an equal opportunity violation. It can be akin to displaying a swastika, a symbol that predates the Nazi party by 1000 yrs and has deep rooted religious and cultural meaning. However this meaning has been overshadowed by Adolph Hitler and Nazis. As an army we depend on each other and need to know that when the fecal matter hits an oscillating object your battle will be there for you. However if an individual is constantly watching their back because someone displays poor judgment this will have a negative impact on the units ability to function as a whole and affect the unit’s ability to complete the mission.
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Interestingly enough California has spoken for everyone in the Golden State and is in the process of banning the display and sales of the Southern Cross and its likeness
Looks like the South will not be rising anytime soon in Cali. but then again there is the ACLU.
http://www.latimes.com/local/political/la-me-pc-confederate-flag-bill-20140820-story.html
Looks like the South will not be rising anytime soon in Cali. but then again there is the ACLU.
http://www.latimes.com/local/political/la-me-pc-confederate-flag-bill-20140820-story.html
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MSG Wade Huffman
I read the article, and found this section interesting:
"The measure by Assemblyman Isadore Hall III (D-Compton) would prohibit the STATE from displaying or selling merchandise emblazoned with the Confederate flag."
"Hall said the bill would apply to the state, not individuals, and therefore would not harm free speech."
So, and individual is still free to display the modified battle flag of Northern Virginia as he/she sees fit, the state, however, can not.
So, it appears that the only thing that changes in the state of California is that the gift shop in the capitol can no longer sell replicas of confederate money. Of all the problems in California, they took this on?
"The measure by Assemblyman Isadore Hall III (D-Compton) would prohibit the STATE from displaying or selling merchandise emblazoned with the Confederate flag."
"Hall said the bill would apply to the state, not individuals, and therefore would not harm free speech."
So, and individual is still free to display the modified battle flag of Northern Virginia as he/she sees fit, the state, however, can not.
So, it appears that the only thing that changes in the state of California is that the gift shop in the capitol can no longer sell replicas of confederate money. Of all the problems in California, they took this on?
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SFC Kenneth Hunnell
Who do you think built the White House, it was built with slave labor. Both the North and South have their share of responsibility for the very existence of slavery in the United States. The idea of slavery was born through the select individuals to do the work themselves or pay a decent wage. The idea that a southern person would put their life on the line so another can own another is crazy. The poor souls that fought and died, did not die to uphold a form of injustice.
The funny thing is that their is more racist in the North than in the south.
Go figure, the first non white reprentitives were from the south, of course after the "Civil War"
The funny thing is that their is more racist in the North than in the south.
Go figure, the first non white reprentitives were from the south, of course after the "Civil War"
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It's funny how a one star Admiral or General fly's a confederate flag on their car or yahts. I'm talking about the Bonnie Blue Flag used by the Mississippi Army as their battle flag. And no one seems to say anything about that.
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PFC Eric Minchey
Maybe nobody is saying anything about that flag because The Bonnie Blue Flag was an unofficial banner of the Confederate States of America. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonnie_Blue_Flag#In_popular_culture
Bonnie Blue Flag - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Bonnie Blue Flag was an unofficial banner of the Confederate States of America at the start of the American Civil War in 1861. It consists of a single, five-pointed white star on a blue field. It closely resembles the flag of the short-lived Republic of West Florida of 1810.
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PO3 Shaun Taylor
PO2 Jonathan Craig Nobody says anything about the other states that have a variation of the confederate flag in their state flag either. Like Arkansas and Mississippi.
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SSG(P) (Join to see)
That flag is also the flag of Somalia. a failed state. So should be allow it to be displayed on US Military installations?
"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"
"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"
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I see these two things being mentioned on here a lot so here is my 2 cents on these matters
1. The actions and feelings of the KKK do NOT represent the Confederacy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCzemzjUbOA&index=3&list=PLBA40FAD452C861F7
2. The Southerners were NOT traitors
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXdm7VLMJ8Q&index=6&list=PLBA40FAD452C861F7
1. The actions and feelings of the KKK do NOT represent the Confederacy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCzemzjUbOA&index=3&list=PLBA40FAD452C861F7
2. The Southerners were NOT traitors
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXdm7VLMJ8Q&index=6&list=PLBA40FAD452C861F7
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PFC Eric Minchey
SGT Steven Cobb that is true however as the video points out the KKK you're referring to was disbanded but some radicals disobeyed the order to disband and hijacked the KKK name so the clan of today is a far-cry from the clan of yester-year.
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LCpl Todd Houston
Sorry, no it wasn't. It was started by retired confederate general Nathan Bedford Forest. It at first was just a way for him and some friends to get into trouble and have fun. It was non-violent. Later , things were starting to get out of hand before it fell out of favor. Then in 1915 it came back with a vengeance and was violent. In 1915 a silent film came out about the KKK called Birth of a Nation. I seriously doubt I have my facts messed up. However, if anyone can show me otherwise, I will kindly differ and stand corrected.
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PFC Eric Minchey
Although Forrest's name is closely associated with the Klan, he was not its founder. The Klan was formed by 6 veterans of the Confederate Army in Pulaski, Tennessee in 1866. It was at about this time that Forrest, learning of the KKK, expressed a desire to join. The eminent recruit was elected grand wizard, the Klan's highest official, and tried to bring the rapidly multiplying dens under a centralized authority — his own. Forrest probably did not object to the violence, per se, as a means of restoring the pre-war hierarchy, but as a military man, he deplored the lack of discipline and structure that defined the growing KKK. In its methods and aims, the KKK was merely the avenging ghost of the Confederate army. To Forrest's dismay, though, it was not an army that he could command. In January 1869, faced with an ungovernable membership employing methods that seemed increasingly counterproductive, Forrest issued KKK General Order Number One: "It is therefore ordered and decreed, that the masks and costumes of this Order be entirely abolished and destroyed." By the end of his life, Forrest's racial attitudes would evolve — in 1875, he advocated for the admission of blacks into law school — and he lived to fully renounce his involvement with the all-but-vanished Klan.
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CW2. ..in that. Light. Beings that she. Asked rather than told, as a courtesy. I suppose it was the right thing to do beings it was on the Tarmac, I agree tact should have been the key, To avoid. Hurt feelings and a confrontation. I agree in that instance.
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Let me preface my comments with this... there is no room in the military for any sort of discrimination. We all wear the suit, we all have a job to do and at the end of the day no matter the color of our skin, what reproductive function our organs serve, the name of the God we pray to (or not), we are all service men and women and each and everyone of us deserves respect if for no other reason than the oath and commitment that we all took.
With that said. ...
On this topic of the Confederate flag I see both sides, however the big thing of that particular icon at least here in the south is quite simply it is a huge part of history and those roots still run very very deep. The thing is interpretation. To most people in this country it is a sign of racial inequality, slavery.... etc....etc...etc... however in reality that truly has almost nothing to do with it. Like so many other situations it is made a racial issue when the truth is far from it... the Confederate or Rebel flag is a symbol of dissatisfaction with the status quo, much like the "don't tread on me" and other icons that have gained in popularity in recent years.
It is a symbol of pride much like your Mexican, Dominican, Puerto Rican flags that are hung from rear view mirrors decaled etc... so seriously if our military members are going to be so thin skinned as to take offense to some one being proud of being from the south.... to not being satisfied with the status quo I say get over it... do I choose to have one... nope I'm from Colorado.. i have my CR Avs and Broncos as well as a big Colorado flag and a mural of the only true mountain range in the country on my truck... is this offensive? Seriously race is only still an issue in this country because everyone makes it an issue in this country... GET OVER IT! Black people have not been slaves in the personal reconning of anyone alive in this contry... they are not the only ones in the history of this country to be slaves.... my great great great grand father was white as the new fallen snow and he came to this country in chains as a slave... slavery is an issue but no one has exclusive claim to it... racism is an issue but again no one has exclusive claim to it... quit making an issue of it and it won't be an issue... plain and simple every race, sex, religion, country, ethnicity has its trash and each have its greats... make the choice of which you want to be an be it.... be part of the solution or be part of the problem...but either way get over it.... that's my two cents... take it or leave it....
With that said. ...
On this topic of the Confederate flag I see both sides, however the big thing of that particular icon at least here in the south is quite simply it is a huge part of history and those roots still run very very deep. The thing is interpretation. To most people in this country it is a sign of racial inequality, slavery.... etc....etc...etc... however in reality that truly has almost nothing to do with it. Like so many other situations it is made a racial issue when the truth is far from it... the Confederate or Rebel flag is a symbol of dissatisfaction with the status quo, much like the "don't tread on me" and other icons that have gained in popularity in recent years.
It is a symbol of pride much like your Mexican, Dominican, Puerto Rican flags that are hung from rear view mirrors decaled etc... so seriously if our military members are going to be so thin skinned as to take offense to some one being proud of being from the south.... to not being satisfied with the status quo I say get over it... do I choose to have one... nope I'm from Colorado.. i have my CR Avs and Broncos as well as a big Colorado flag and a mural of the only true mountain range in the country on my truck... is this offensive? Seriously race is only still an issue in this country because everyone makes it an issue in this country... GET OVER IT! Black people have not been slaves in the personal reconning of anyone alive in this contry... they are not the only ones in the history of this country to be slaves.... my great great great grand father was white as the new fallen snow and he came to this country in chains as a slave... slavery is an issue but no one has exclusive claim to it... racism is an issue but again no one has exclusive claim to it... quit making an issue of it and it won't be an issue... plain and simple every race, sex, religion, country, ethnicity has its trash and each have its greats... make the choice of which you want to be an be it.... be part of the solution or be part of the problem...but either way get over it.... that's my two cents... take it or leave it....
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(1) How do you feel about the Confederate flag being displayed on the vehicle/person of a service member if he/she is ON post? How does your opinion change if the member is OFF post? Don't care whether the person is on post or off-post.
(2) What does the Confederate flag symbolize to you personally? What do you think it can symbolize to other people around you who may perceive it differently? I've always felt that most people who fly the confederate flag are just proud to be from the south. I've never known anyone who had a confederate flag to be racist or anything, it was just a matter of pride for them.
(3) If you have personally experienced a military-related situation where a symbol/flag caused someone to be offended, what happened and what did you/would you have done as the leader? N/A
As someone else said, people can get offended over anything today. Some might be offended by a confederate flag, others may be offended by another flag or a symbol.
(2) What does the Confederate flag symbolize to you personally? What do you think it can symbolize to other people around you who may perceive it differently? I've always felt that most people who fly the confederate flag are just proud to be from the south. I've never known anyone who had a confederate flag to be racist or anything, it was just a matter of pride for them.
(3) If you have personally experienced a military-related situation where a symbol/flag caused someone to be offended, what happened and what did you/would you have done as the leader? N/A
As someone else said, people can get offended over anything today. Some might be offended by a confederate flag, others may be offended by another flag or a symbol.
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