Posted on Aug 22, 2014
Feelings on displaying the Confederate flag on your POV or person while on a military installation?
362K
2.13K
959
111
111
0
Recently, I had a long and heated discussion with a fellow veteran about this issue. I don't know for sure whether a branch-specific reg or a DoD-wide reg exists that prohibits/allows personnel on a military installation to display the Confederate flag on their personal vehicle or on their person (e.g. a belt buckle). Maybe this is a base-specific policy and left to the judgment of the installation commander. Display of the Confederate flag is a divisive issue and people often feel really strongly one way or the other. But today, it is still a relevant topic and touches on other military leadership/discipline areas, including the actions of one member deeply offending another member -- regardless of whether said action is legal/authorized. That can create huge problems in a military unit, and this happened in a unit I personally served in. So, below are my questions for the RallyPoint community about this issue.
Please try to keep comments professional (don't attack one another) and explain your thoughts as best you can.
Questions:
(1) How do you feel about the Confederate flag being displayed on the vehicle/person of a service member if he/she is ON post? How does your opinion change if the member is OFF post?
(2) What does the Confederate flag symbolize to you personally? What do you think it can symbolize to other people around you who may perceive it differently?
(3) If you have personally experienced a military-related situation where a symbol/flag caused someone to be offended, what happened and what did you/would you have done as the leader?
I look fwd to everyone's thoughts on this. Personally, I have some strong feelings about this issue, though I don't want to bias people's answers upfront. Please be as honest as possible.
Tag: SSG Emily Williams Col (Join to see) 1SG Steven Stankovich SSG Scott Williams 1LT Sandy Annala CPT (Join to see) SSG V. Michelle Woods MSG Carl Cunningham
Please try to keep comments professional (don't attack one another) and explain your thoughts as best you can.
Questions:
(1) How do you feel about the Confederate flag being displayed on the vehicle/person of a service member if he/she is ON post? How does your opinion change if the member is OFF post?
(2) What does the Confederate flag symbolize to you personally? What do you think it can symbolize to other people around you who may perceive it differently?
(3) If you have personally experienced a military-related situation where a symbol/flag caused someone to be offended, what happened and what did you/would you have done as the leader?
I look fwd to everyone's thoughts on this. Personally, I have some strong feelings about this issue, though I don't want to bias people's answers upfront. Please be as honest as possible.
Tag: SSG Emily Williams Col (Join to see) 1SG Steven Stankovich SSG Scott Williams 1LT Sandy Annala CPT (Join to see) SSG V. Michelle Woods MSG Carl Cunningham
Edited 10 y ago
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 326
It's funny how one star admirals and generals fly a confederate flag everyday, whether on their car, building, or yacht. I'm talking about the Bonnie Blue Flag which was used as the Mississippi army as their battle flag. And no one seems to talk about that.
(1)
(0)
I really think we have a lot more important things to worry about that flag -- we have wounded warriors that need our attention.. Awake up
(1)
(0)
SGT(P) (Join to see)
I totally agree... there are much better, bigger and more important things to be worried about... people need to quit making issues out of crap that shouldn't be an issue and worry about things that should be handled... like the wounded warrior project, hidden wounds, soldier care, family, etc... get off the race crap let it go... it is a stupid ignorance issue that should have died long ago but continues to kick us because people have to have something to whine about... i say leave the whining to the little ones soldier up and do your job...
(0)
(0)
PO3 Gordon Soderberg
You would probably have a different opinion if you were black and living in the south. This flag represents slavery and oppression. I is still waved with reverence in the south by those that wish to return to those days. Not an issue for you. Fine. But don't for a second think it is not an issue worth dealing with. Troops are not getting care because politicians feel as you do about the confederate flag.
(0)
(0)
SSgt John Carroll
Despite the fact that you are allowed your freedom to speech PO3 Gordon Soderberg I strongly suggest you educate yourself before disrespecting half a nation. As someone who has moved between Ks & Tx most of childhood & adulthood I've seen just as much racism & reverse racism in both "North" & "South". While I lived in Texas (SOUTH) many people had that flag in many places. Yes some of them were Black & Hispanic not just White. That being said, unless you are trying to say that there are black individuals that want to be slaves again, then you should probably stop & realize that it also represents Southern Pride and sometimes you should take in the full situation; even if that means asking, instead of being prejudice.
(0)
(0)
It flies everyday on military bases in Mississippi as it is part of the Mississippi state flag. I know this because I am from Mississippi. As a former Enlisted Soldier and Officer - none of us from that state, black - white - Asian - Hispanic ever took issue with the flag. It doesn't represent hate at all. It represents a time in history where states separated from the government because they felt states rights were being trampled on by the federal government. As one gentlemen mentioned below, this particular flag was one of many variations of Confederate battle flags flown in the South during the Civil War. In today's time, it represents heritage of the people from the South - something that unites them. It is no different than the Mexican flag that my American friends with Mexican heritage display - or the African flag that many of my American friends with African heritage display - or the Irish flag that many of my American friends from Ireland display. Someone's interpretation of what a flag means to them is just that - their own interpretation... but the last time I checked, the U.S. Constitution guarantees the the right to free speech and freedom of expression - and the display of a flag does not pose a threat to anyone physically. So, even on military bases - the U.S. Constitution still prevails... at least I believe that's what we swore an allegiance to protect and defend!
(1)
(0)
LTC Paul Labrador
The problem, IMHO, is that there is a dual meaning to that flag. I accept that to a lot of Southerners it is merely a represenation of heritage. I get that and have no probelm with it. However, to a significant portion of our society it ALSO represents racism, because it was OVERTLY used by racist groups as their flag. What I see is people either don't understand or don't want to acknowledge that simple fact. Other national flags you mentioned usually don't have that sceond conotation attached to it.
(0)
(0)
CPT Mike Sims
As American Soldiers - we fought and died for the preservation of the Constitution which includes the First Amendment - Freedom of Speech and Expression. The right to fly any flag in the United States is protected by the First Amendment. When we begin to remove symbols because certain groups cry foul over how they feel - then we will have to begin removing all things of symbolic nature in this country for any group who will cry foul later - and in doing so, we will remove the pathway from our past that enabled us to define a better future for ourselves. When we begin to govern based on feelings instead of what is right in accordance with the Constitution, then we have abandoned our oath as Soldiers - as Protectors and Defenders and Guardians of the Constitution. The Native Americans experienced slavery and more trauma than black people in the U.S. (not to marginalize such experiences)- so what if Native Americans now begin to have an issue with the American flag - should we take it down too? I mean after all, the American flag was responsible for the institute of slavery in the U.S. and for more deaths of slaves than the Confederate flag. As for slavery - the first slaves in America were Native Americans and then Irish prisoners sent over from England and then children - who were white and forced to work in harsh conditions in the north. The first black slave was owned by a free black man in Virginia, and the largest black slave owner prior to the beginning of the war in 1860 was a free black man in South Carolina. The north had more slaves than the south at the beginning of the war, and General Lee set his slaves free before the war even began - but General Grant of the Union did not even free his slaves until after the war. Lincoln's position prior to the war was that slavery was not even an issue and he felt that black slaves should be sent back to Africa - however, even then, not all black slaves were from Africa. Therefore, the issue of racism extends beyond a flag and it lives and breathes not because of a flag. The military is a great example of how people can live together harmoniously and that we can accomplish amazing things - when we are one color (Green) - not focused on what divides us, but all that unites us. Therefore, we either protect the rights of all, not the few, and we defend the rights of people in this country to fly any flag they choose - not because it may offend someone, but because it is their right to do so for - and the reason why you and I served this great country, and why our brothers and sisters - and ancestors died for this country. As for me, I have fought along side men and women who were white, black, Hispanic, Asian, Muslim, Christians, Buddhists - but the one thing we all had in common - we were Americans... nothing else - just Americans!
(0)
(0)
Since the flag no longer has a country behind it, I don't think its much of an issue. Its just one's way of saying I'm from the south. Now if you were to fly the flag of another current country, thats a different story.
I had a quadron Gunny who was against it in any way. He'd make your life hell if you had it up.
Some attribute it to slavery, but some want to see the bad in all. The southern way of life is so different that the fast pace of other parts of the country. Hailing a cab in NY vs sitting back on the porch sipping a beer in Alabama. Thats how I see it. I'm not "southern", I've never flown it, but it doesn't offend me. There are plenty of other real issues to be offended by.
However, I do think the big flag on the back of the truck is overkill and an attempt to intentinaly piss people off.
I had a quadron Gunny who was against it in any way. He'd make your life hell if you had it up.
Some attribute it to slavery, but some want to see the bad in all. The southern way of life is so different that the fast pace of other parts of the country. Hailing a cab in NY vs sitting back on the porch sipping a beer in Alabama. Thats how I see it. I'm not "southern", I've never flown it, but it doesn't offend me. There are plenty of other real issues to be offended by.
However, I do think the big flag on the back of the truck is overkill and an attempt to intentinaly piss people off.
(1)
(0)
Sgt Packy Flickinger
So Bo an Luke Duke were just slave running American traitors huh. Like I said, people see things from the viewpoint they want to. Just like most see the Nazi swastika as evil incarnate, it's original meaning was anything but.
(0)
(0)
CPT Ahmed Faried
SGT Flickinger, it isn't an issue of geographical perception. They are many southerners who see it the same way as northerners.
(0)
(0)
Sgt Packy Flickinger
True, but my point is that not all see it that way. Next time you see someone who's flying the confederate flag, ask him/her if she supports all the bad things listed. I'm not defending the flying of it, I'm only saying it may not represent to them what it represents to many of you. I'm not southern so it doesn't mean squat to me.
(0)
(0)
Sgt Packy Flickinger
The flaw in that arguement is that the Nazi flag did infact represent a group of dispicable people. They are gone now. If we felt that way about our southerners then we would have bannes it along time ago. The battle flag of the confederacy didnt mean genocide, rape, torture and the like as the Nazi flag did. Its just the viewpoint of some and an example of how narrow minded and unAmerican this country is becomming.
Its part of a much bigger picture and a smaller America that our history and freedoms are being rewritten and destroyed.
How many were slaughtered in the crusades? Yet i dont see any move to ban the Christian flag. Dont ya love how hipocrissy works.
Its part of a much bigger picture and a smaller America that our history and freedoms are being rewritten and destroyed.
How many were slaughtered in the crusades? Yet i dont see any move to ban the Christian flag. Dont ya love how hipocrissy works.
(0)
(0)
This issue is the epitome of a situation that no matter what side you are on, you are wrong on some level. First and foremost it is a 1st amendment issue. I would say that just about any person in the military would say the main reason they joined the military was to fight and protect all our rights, morals and way of life we enjoy. The reason for the Bill of Rights in the first place was keep sacred the protection the rights of the few. Willing to risk life and limb to ensure those minority opinions, no matter how reprehensible they be (ie.. KKK, Arian Brotherhood, Black Panther etc...). This right has never been taken lightly. That being said, in this particular case, the federal government is not working as a legislative body, but rather that of employer. As such, in order to serve, one must sign a contract with numerous clauses, just as any employer does. Even jobs that do not require signed contracts, do have a code of conduct, handbook or otherwise set of rules. The most basic example is that requirement of a uniform or dress code. And yes this can extend to one's off duty time as well. The best example I can think of would be that of law enforcement. In order to work for such an employer, perhaps a rule prohibiting beards is in place. Since it is highly unlikely one could grow a full beard in just a few days, enough to look respectable anyhow, it is made a rule that no beards be allowed. The list could become extensive. No visible tattoos, no t-shirts with offensive language, religious or political speech etc... Since this would be considered a highly visible profession, the courts have consistently held that an off duty officer can still be held to the same standard they are when they are on duty, and this is not considered a violation of the officer's first amendment rights. He or she has the choice of not taking the job!! However, nothing is ever as cut and dried as this. If you take the same individual and have them delivering newspapers to news boxes in town at 3:30 in the morning, now it does violate their rights. Now, to me the confederate flag means a time in our history when several of the united states succeeded from the union in order to protect the rights of those states to govern themselves without the interference of the federal government. It was believed this would lead to excessive interference of a large central government that would continue to grow to an unmanageable level that would continue to slowly strip away more and more rights of the people. Look around you, they were not wrong!!! It just so happened that the right at issue was each states freedom to choose to be a free or slave state. ( Google the Missouri Compromise). Understandably so, through the flawed teaching of our history by our many varied school systems, millions of children were taught that the Civil War was fought over slavery. This is fundamentally incorrect. It was fought over states rights. Because of this, the Confederate flag has become a dark symbol in our country meaning that those who display it endorse slavery or are prejudice over African Americans. Many may be, but to me it symbolizes a time in our history that showed once again that when Americans feel oppression from the state, they are willing to fight tooth and nail, to the death for our freedoms. It just so happens the irony was to have the freedom to keep freedom from others. However, we are still dealing with the same issue today, only now the subject is the Affordable Care Act.
I did not set out to make this politically correct. I set out to state my opinion and back it up with facts. I make no apologies for my statements. In no way have I set out to hurt anyone. However, if you have read this in its entirety and feel I have offended you, please reread it as most likely there is something that I wrote that you simply didn't understand.
I did not set out to make this politically correct. I set out to state my opinion and back it up with facts. I make no apologies for my statements. In no way have I set out to hurt anyone. However, if you have read this in its entirety and feel I have offended you, please reread it as most likely there is something that I wrote that you simply didn't understand.
(1)
(0)
LCpl Mark Lefler
My example of the flaw of states rights is this, if Alabama, Louisiana had their way, there would still be segregation in the south. The civil rights act would be void to them.
(0)
(0)
Suspended Profile
I'm from South Carolina, the first state to succeed from the union. South Carolina no longer uses any of the flags of the confederacy, so I neither hold it in high regard nor disdain. It is a part of the history of our great nation and, if used as a reminder that we shall never be divided again, I think it's appropriate. People like what they like. As long as it's not being used as a tool to divide then it is permissible. I've had to educate people in the military on the meaning behind such things, not just the most popular confederate flag. I think the ways in which I approach situations like that leave everyone with a better understanding that it is not about racism, it's about remembering an important piece of our history. Now, if someone is using it as an inflammatory tool, they will remove it, end of story. Most people display the Naval Jack, based on the dimensions, and not the battle flag that they are intending.
CPT (Join to see)
Those terms are never acceptable in any context, and I would quickly file paperwork on any soldier to chapter them out, point blank. If we are trying to be "the shining light on the hill" what message does this send if we accept ignorance and intolerance of this nature? This is a "no-go".
(1)
(0)
this is simple.
the Confederacy was an enemy of the USA and unlike other past enemies of the USA, it is not was not recognized as an ally or partner.
the Confederacy was an enemy of the USA and unlike other past enemies of the USA, it is not was not recognized as an ally or partner.
(0)
(0)
DOD should institute a comprehensive policy for all the services both on and off post.
When I see a rebel flag I immediately think of slavery, lynchings, and other demeaning actions such as white only sections. On a battlefield the rebel flag supporter may move slowly to help a Soldier of color. Conversely, a Soldier of color may be slow to help the rebel flag supporter. You cannot even have the mere thought of something like these deliberate acts in a unit.
When I see a rebel flag I immediately think of slavery, lynchings, and other demeaning actions such as white only sections. On a battlefield the rebel flag supporter may move slowly to help a Soldier of color. Conversely, a Soldier of color may be slow to help the rebel flag supporter. You cannot even have the mere thought of something like these deliberate acts in a unit.
(0)
(0)
My late stepdad retired from the Army as a CW4. He was a Purple Heart recipient and member of the Sons of Confederate Veterans. He said that had he been around then he would have fought for the south. He was a good man and it’s because of him that I just cannot see the Confederacy as the embodiment of evil that I feel like I’m being told it was. At the very least I have some respect for those guys as fellow soldiers.
(0)
(0)
Being born and raised in Kentucky my early Heros were Robert E. Lee, Stonewall Jackson, John Mosby along with George Washington and Francis Marion. Kentucky was truly torn as it’s families frequently fought on both sides. None of my people owned Slaves or knew anyone who did but they were against the North telling the South how to Govern themselves. The Slavery Question was a political argument and did not involve the Common man who farmed his rocky acres with one mule and owned one cow, if he was lucky. Children went barefoot in the summer. Usually everyone owned a Squirrel gun and shotgun in order to kill small game to supplement their garden. The Stars and Bars Identified the Southern Troops to keep from shooting their own people as war is very confusing at times, especially then. So now we are here so many years later and and people who had nothing to do with the War are upset when a person wears a flag to remember his or her Heritage of Brave ancestors who answered the call of their State to defend it from attacks from the Northern Armies. While My Hero might be your Villain, so is the reverse true. Talk to the people of Atlanta about General Sherman. Still his ancestors are proud of him and rightly so. Today we have much to disagree over. No one who has a Confederate Flag beloved in Slavery and they Damn sure have never owned a slave nor their Father or Grandfather. Today things like this are a personal choice. Let them stay that way.
(0)
(0)
Read This Next