Posted on Aug 22, 2014
CPT Aaron Kletzing
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Recently, I had a long and heated discussion with a fellow veteran about this issue. I don't know for sure whether a branch-specific reg or a DoD-wide reg exists that prohibits/allows personnel on a military installation to display the Confederate flag on their personal vehicle or on their person (e.g. a belt buckle). Maybe this is a base-specific policy and left to the judgment of the installation commander. Display of the Confederate flag is a divisive issue and people often feel really strongly one way or the other. But today, it is still a relevant topic and touches on other military leadership/discipline areas, including the actions of one member deeply offending another member -- regardless of whether said action is legal/authorized. That can create huge problems in a military unit, and this happened in a unit I personally served in. So, below are my questions for the RallyPoint community about this issue.

Please try to keep comments professional (don't attack one another) and explain your thoughts as best you can.

Questions:
(1) How do you feel about the Confederate flag being displayed on the vehicle/person of a service member if he/she is ON post? How does your opinion change if the member is OFF post?
(2) What does the Confederate flag symbolize to you personally? What do you think it can symbolize to other people around you who may perceive it differently?
(3) If you have personally experienced a military-related situation where a symbol/flag caused someone to be offended, what happened and what did you/would you have done as the leader?

I look fwd to everyone's thoughts on this. Personally, I have some strong feelings about this issue, though I don't want to bias people's answers upfront. Please be as honest as possible.

Tag: SSG Emily Williams Col (Join to see) 1SG Steven Stankovich SSG Scott Williams 1LT Sandy Annala CPT (Join to see) SSG V. Michelle Woods MSG Carl Cunningham
Edited 10 y ago
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Responses: 326
PO3 Scot Fahey
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First understand, this is a Naval Jack. I have no requirement to accept how activist have tried to redefine historic artifacts. Two, if you allow your emotions to be controlled by this symbol, then you are no longer in control of your emotions. The equals a really bad plan.
Remember not to allow your self to be provoked. The moments after you respond to being provoked, you will often find there was a camera recording you . Often a really less than positive outcome.
DO NOT play the game, there is no way to win.
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1stSgt Phil Mendoza
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I agree 100%! The confederate flag is a symbolism of the south, it does not represent hate. Even though those spreading hate use it, that is not what it represents. I blame social media and dumbasses. Who by the way wanted all the confiderate general statues taken down. They want history to be erased. Some people are very proud of their state flag, and where they are from. As far as base goes, I wish I had an answer for you. Every base regardless of orginazation is a melting pot of personalities, races and cultures. If your not flying anything Derogatory or vulgar, you should be allowed to display it. But, that is the base commanders desicion.
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SFC Mpd Ncoic
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First off, good Q/A.
Personally, I don't get offended too easily. When it comes to this flag, it can be offensive to some, especially if there are certain actions that accompany it. To me, it symbolizes racism and hurt that was caused to some of my family members.
It wouldn't matter if a SM was on or off post.
From a leader's point of view, if ANYTHING was displayed that others found offensive, then there is cause to have said item removed as to not disrupt good order and discipline. If any such display distracts from mission accomplishment and lowered moral, then it has no business in the AO.
To ask someone to remove something deemed offensive to others would be the right thing to do. It doesn't mean that someone is being judged or treated differently because of their beliefs. It would mean that someone is now having to work in a hostile environment, making it harder for the organization to be fully mission capable and to complete the mission. We have to learn to be cognizant of our surroundings and understand that there are differences amongst all of us. It's about being a part of a team and doing what's best for all, and not just one.
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SPC Phillip Anderson
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It's a First Amendment issue and the leaders of the post can suspend First Amendment rights for the welfare of the whole.
That being said, I also believe that images of Che Guevara should be banned.
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CPL William Brown
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The Civil War WAS NOT ABOUT SLAVERY. It was about session from the union. Why would 4 slave states join the North to fight against the south if it was about slavery. If you and I lived in a southern state and the North invaded our homeland, we would have risen up to protect our homes and family would we not? That is why the confederate flag is important. Many heroes and patriots died under that flag defending their homeland.
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LTC Stephan Porter
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Without entering the “confederate” issue discussion specifically; I had another though based on your preamble to the questions:

Regarding the, “...one member deeply offending another...”

Frankly, agree that there are things that are just too hurtful and should not be allowed (like the Confederate flag), but...

How far should this go? To what degree and lengths, hiw for teaching should a policy forbidding “offensive” things be amen?

Just a thought.
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SGT Jon Creager
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It only creates a problem when asshole want it too. So you say Soldiers dont have the 1st Amendment rights. I think its time for you to leave the military .
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SrA Larry Ingram
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Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it
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LtCol Paul Bowen
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If wearing a "STARS & BARS FLAG SHIRT" and an NC State Flag on your truck (in combination) gets you "LAID"...what's wrong with that?
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LtCol Paul Bowen
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Edited 6 y ago
Hello Fellow Rally Pointers...
I grew up in California...a State since 1850 that was on the Winning Side of the American Civil War. I was ignorant of the underlying causes of the war except to know it ended slavery in the United States of America.

After my commissioning in 1980 I started to clear up some of my ignorance by reading "Lee's Lieutenants" by Douglas Southall Freeman...three volumes published from 1942 to 1946. Freeman had access in some cases to survivors of the War as well as primary and secondary sources. His work pioneers historical research based on eyewitness accounts that were written down by participants themselves.

Before 1860 the first challenge to the SUPREMACY of the U.S. Constitution took place in DEC 1832...over tariffs...South Carolina passed an "Annulment Act" to disallow collection of tariff revenues from Charleston. They did not like the Tariff that Congress wrote, and that President Jackson "Signed". In response to the SC Legislature, President Jackson asked CONGRESS to authorize the use of force to collect the Tariffs from Charleston. Congress passed the "FORCE ACT" authorizing the use of FEDERAL TROOPS to enforce the Tariff of 1832 in Charleston.

SC attempted enlist GA, NC and VA to join them in "Annulment"...Virginia ignored the offer; GA never got around to making a response...NC thought about it until President Jackson asked them, "You want all of those Cherokee to come back from Oklahoma?"

As Federal Troops took the road to Charleston, the SC Legislature rescinded the "Annulment Act" and then voted to annul the "FORCE ACT"...and there history holds its breath for 28 years.

The Confederates believed in something about Southern State's Rights...preservation of slavery was one of those "Rights" that were threatened with infringement because expansion of the Country meant slave-states would eventually be unable to preserve the Institution of Slavery in the Federal Government...also, recall that New York, Delaware, New Jersey and Maryland were "SLAVE STATES" who joined the Union against the South because preservation of the UNION was paramount in their allegiance to the USA.

The Union utterly destroyed the Confederate States because TOTAL WAR was applied to their sovereign territories; was it worth it?

Today the magnitude of the struggle from 1860-1865 to PRESERVE the UNION can be guessed at by visiting Battlefield Monuments...go the Chattanooga Battlefields...massive granite monuments for the Union and Confederate Regiments are there to mark the passing of men, horses and armaments.

Go to the Shiloh Battlefield in Tennessee...24,000 men became casualties in two days of toe-to-toe slaughter. Look at the graves marked "UNKNOWN"...what did that man die for?

680,000 Americans died in that war...380,000 on the Union side...50% of every death was a "Camp Death"...not from combat but from living out in the open...respiratory illnesses and camp fevers.

What does a statue of Robert E. Lee, Jeff. Davis, P.G.T. Beauregard and George Pickett mean to me? They beg to be studied. Did their own psychological attachment to an economic system based on slavery make any sense in the 21st Century? What did mid-19th Century men consider their inalienable rights?

They all participated in the Mexican American War which defeated the Mexican Army and annexed vast parts of North America for the USA. It was a "LAND GRAB" at the expense of Mexico...and in defense of President Polk, I would say that the Mexicans didn't have very big plans in first place...so, better for the USA. Taking Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada and California away from Mexico was a better deal for Americans. Americans had plans to tie the country together with railroads and settlement...the Mexicans did not share the same vision.

In defense of Mexico, they were oppressed by the Spanish and a certain church from 1521 to 1821...colonial administration left the population at 97% illiteracy...a real handicap for a group of people suddenly expected to govern themselves without a single legacy institution like the "House of Burgess of Virginia" to build upon. It took Mexico from 1821 to 1880 to have a balanced budget under Porfirio Diaz, Dictator from 1880 to 1910. Hardly a democracy in being. The lesson is that a population with a liberal education is better equipped to determine their own future...otherwise ignorant mob behavior is the best you can expect...just look at the ANTIFA losers in the news today.

So why did the US Army Lieutenants of 1845-1846 decide to partition the "Whole Country" as CSA Army Generals of 1860-1865 into separate parts...Free and Slave parts?

Flags carry meaning. The United States of America Flag is posted on the MOON...it is there because a Country named United States of America put it there. Our Flag carries meaning for every person on Planet Earth...our enemies despise and fear us; our Country men and women see it for their own experiences...around the world that Flag evokes an emotion no matter where it is seen...Americans are special...we are non-conformists...the Flag carries that message.

The "Stars & Bars" represent the Army of Northern Virginia...the striking arm of the Confederacy that forged its own winning record...a shield of men, horses and armaments that protected Richmond, Virginia all the way to APR 1865. Under Robert E. Lee the "Army of Northern Virginia" defeated half a dozen Union Generals for four and a half long and bloody years. In the end the Union applied a policy of "Total War" against the CSA...General Grant applied attrition warfare against the Army of Northern Virginia to the point that resistance collapsed for lack of men, horses and armaments...the Peace between Lincoln and Grant was interrupted with the Johnson Administration...an unexpected break in policy continuity that didn't help anyone.

When I was in high school the "Stars & Bars" were used as sort of an infantile symbol of defiance...like when you decide you are going to drink beer before you are of legal age, all the way through high school...something silly...the "Stars & Bars" evoked a feeling of "futile act of defiance". As a symbol of repression or denying someone their Constitutional Rights? Not really. The Ku Klux Klan makes that message clear...not the Stars & Bars.

I recently found a newspaper obituary from 1900 that mentions a distant relative...George Hearn of Arkansas, who joined the 33rd Georgia Regiment, CSA. What moved this ancestor to join arms against the UNION? It deserves more research. Did he own slaves? I don't know, yet.

From my grandmother (1907 to 2010) I learned that Union Guerillas tortured my Great-Great Grandfather Johnson to give up the location of valuables and livestock by burning his feet in a fire. I would guess he did not take a loyalty oath during RECONSTRUCTION. My family roots in Arkansas and North Carolina were Southern Sympathizers...the question is, "Why?" The way we see news reporting today, population segments can be overly influenced in the absence of multiple information sources. We see this all the time in the "Shock Entertainment Industry Media" (Left-Wing Journalism) and what I accept as "more balanced"...Conservative News Outlets...so what sort of news shaped their attitudes and opinions to support the Southern Cause? I assume they were literate...planters...had access to at least ONE NEWSPAPER in the wilderness farms of Arkansas in the 1850s.

I don't display the Stars & Bars because I have no emotional connection with the symbol. I recognize that there were Brave Americans living between 1860 to 1865 who chose to fight and die believing in their purpose under that FLAG. So I don't ban the Stars & Bars because it would shut down introspection...inquiry...as to what motivates brothers and sisters with a common political heritage to kill each other in fighting that was "Hand to Hand" at times. In the end, slavery was abolished and the Confederacy burned to ashes...was there an alternate way to avoid the bloodshed?
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