Posted on Aug 22, 2014
CPT Aaron Kletzing
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Confed2
Confed
Recently, I had a long and heated discussion with a fellow veteran about this issue. I don't know for sure whether a branch-specific reg or a DoD-wide reg exists that prohibits/allows personnel on a military installation to display the Confederate flag on their personal vehicle or on their person (e.g. a belt buckle). Maybe this is a base-specific policy and left to the judgment of the installation commander. Display of the Confederate flag is a divisive issue and people often feel really strongly one way or the other. But today, it is still a relevant topic and touches on other military leadership/discipline areas, including the actions of one member deeply offending another member -- regardless of whether said action is legal/authorized. That can create huge problems in a military unit, and this happened in a unit I personally served in. So, below are my questions for the RallyPoint community about this issue.

Please try to keep comments professional (don't attack one another) and explain your thoughts as best you can.

Questions:
(1) How do you feel about the Confederate flag being displayed on the vehicle/person of a service member if he/she is ON post? How does your opinion change if the member is OFF post?
(2) What does the Confederate flag symbolize to you personally? What do you think it can symbolize to other people around you who may perceive it differently?
(3) If you have personally experienced a military-related situation where a symbol/flag caused someone to be offended, what happened and what did you/would you have done as the leader?

I look fwd to everyone's thoughts on this. Personally, I have some strong feelings about this issue, though I don't want to bias people's answers upfront. Please be as honest as possible.

Tag: SSG Emily Williams Col (Join to see) 1SG Steven Stankovich SSG Scott Williams 1LT Sandy Annala CPT (Join to see) SSG V. Michelle Woods MSG Carl Cunningham
Edited 10 y ago
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Responses: 326
SSgt Forensic Meteorological Consultant
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Just like all these 'talking points' we get a blizzard of political chaff that is meant to keep us from working together. Sure you have the pinheads who exploit the racists and their rants but then you get people blending the term 'redneck' and the rebel flag as being one and the same.

So as 1LT Sandy Annala alluded to, there is a lot of baloney that is 'urban legend' and that urban legend is a destructive political force. While I personally would not fly that flag, it has nothing to do with it per se and it has everything to do with the fact that I am not southern and can't relate to General Lee. But I do respect that part of culture who had their way of life, exclusive of slavery and oppression.
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PFC Eric Minchey
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"Every man should endeavor to understand the meaning of subjugation before it is too late. It means the history of this heroic struggle will be written by the enemy; that our youth will be trained by Northern schoolteachers; will learn from Northern school books their version of the war; will be impressed by the influences of history and education to regard our gallant dead as traitors, and our maimed veterans as fit objects for derision. It is said slavery is all we are fighting for, and if we give it up we give up all. Even if this were true, which we deny, slavery is not all our enemies are fighting for. It is merely the pretense to establish sectional superiority and a more centralized form of government, and to deprive us of our rights and liberties."--- Maj. General Patrick R. Cleburne, CSA.
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PFC Eric Minchey
PFC Eric Minchey
10 y
No disrespect intended sir, but history is written by the victors & a lie is a lie just because they write it down & call it history doesn't make it true. This is the reason I want to be a historian so I can expose these lies & because people have short memories & those who are too young to know need to be taught. Also one could argue that those documents were written to please the highest bidders & biggest campaign contributors as is often done in politics. Those documents and others like them may have spoken for the 1% of the confederacy that owned slaves but not for the other 99% of the confederacy.
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LCDR Aerospace Engineering Duty, Maintenance (AMDO and AMO)
LCDR (Join to see)
10 y
Well, if we're going to get rid of all things divisive, then I'd like to see Democrat bumper stickers go. After all, it was the Democratic Party that fought for slavery, Jim Crow laws, and founded the KKK.
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LCpl Todd Houston
LCpl Todd Houston
10 y
I will never tell anyone to never write with emotion, as some of the most cherished literary works through history were written full with emotion. But I digress. Because these works would never be published if they had to pass the muster of a censor, or group of them. The very reason that I joined the military was to support and defend the constitution for everyone. The entire constitution, not just the parts that suited me. As detestable as I feel about a Nazi parade, ( or gay pride parade, ((fill in your least favorite parade)) ) I would do everything in my power to make sure that it could go on. Even though it would have "no place in our modern society". Deep down, I truly believe you would do the same. Don't like what's on t.v.? Turn the channel, or off. And that is the real reason for this discussion in the first place. The "Confederate Flag" just happened to be the catalyst. I'm thrilled that you took the time to read these posts, and place one of your own. I am very proud of you for serving our beloved country, and can never truly thank you enough for that service. Your emotion is very appropriate for this type of venue as it is enough to spark the emotions of others and keep us in a civil dialogue. SSGT, please don't feel that I am trying to contradict you or belittle you in any way. Truly, I have been watching this forum for weeks now and have wanted to leave a post such as this many times. It just happened to be your post that lit a fire under my butt. Respectfully, todd d. Houston
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PFC Eric Minchey
PFC Eric Minchey
>1 y
SGT, I intend to do so by encouraging my students to read, question & think for themselves to look at other material (books, films, etc) to study and form their own thoughts & opinions on historical events not just take the school-issued text books's word for it and to encourage them to pass that encouragement on to their children. Does that answer your question?
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SSG Maurice P.
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CAPT Kletzing on the other hand off duty military people who display black red and green in their civillian attire offends me,the same way the confederate flag offends them...tit for tat!
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Sgt Randy Novak
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It only becomes a problem if you or the Nay-sayer is racist. It's all in the eyes of the beholder. People will always bitch and cry over someone else's style, taste, or preference. I look at it this way, if what you are doing doesn't cause harm and somebody doesn't like it... F#@k em'. That's why God made you who you are.
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SGT Section Sergeant
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Solely in answer the original posters question.
Looking at symbolism alone as what this flag represented in our nations history, an part of our nation attempting to secede from the union. When that failed these states attempted a revolution to become a new nation which was not part of the union. They failed in this venture.

When you take the oath of enlistment you swear to support and defend the constitution of the united states against all enemies foreign and domestic and to bear true faith and allegiance to the same.

Looking at it solely from that perspective if your bearing true faith and allegiance to the united states of america, you shouldn't be displaying the flag of the area which attempted to revolt against it.

I am from California, you don't see me displaying Mexico's flag everywhere nor would I want to because i not a Mexican. I am an American and my faith and Loyalty lies with the United States of America. I love the area I grew up in. I love how diverse and cultured it is. I love its history with the Hispanic missions the pacific railroad, the gold rush, and the launching of the internet and the information age. I would never however fly or display the Mexican or Californian flag on post because my loyalty lies to the constitution of the united states.
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SGM Senior Adviser, National Communications
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Let's share another point of view. Allow me to establish a credential as recipient of the NAACP Roy Wilkens award selection representing US Army Europe several years ago (for taking great risk in supporti of women and minorities.) That was part of a result of a substantiated DOD case where I had to force certain issues to resolution or go down with the ship. And no, I am not a zealot nor holier-than-thou crusader. I just like to be on the right side of right; made up my mind long ago to do my duty and to do it well; and if the day came that the Green Machine wants to slam dunk you for doing it, you must take a stand. For you must stand for something or you will for anything. Part of that time I also served as acting Garrison CSM at an installation where there was some rather serious leadership and puported racial issues. No doubt there were all kinds of issues simmering. From my perspective, the main issue was the failure to maintain order and discipline among a specific skill set that shall remain nameless. Anyone who did their duty was undermined and looked like the Ugly Duckling. Secondary to that was the command's propensity to act upon malicious gossip rather than fact, which was a tendency exploited by one or two individuals in the senior leadership as a divisive tactic to play other senior leaders against one another. Rebel flags came into the picture when a group of disgruntled officers--yes commissioned officers--in the medical unit made allegations of racial discrimination. They did so on the front page of a local newspaper, in uniform (contrary to army regs), and we had evidence that in two or more of their allegations, they personally arranged for the mischief--(1) small rebel flags placed on vehicles that were photographed and given media as "Evidence" of a negative racial climate and (2) personal procurement of the few copies of JET/BET magazine sold on base as "evidence" that the commander had somehow "stopped distro" which he of course did not. The brought in the rush to judgement as set the command up to look foolish, because dealing with the real issues involving the officers--which never came to public light--took a back seat to the media circus. During that time another former officer, a minority, who allegedly once had a poor OER hunted down the (white) officer who wrote it and shot him with a shot gun on the back porch of the HQ. Meanwhile I did what one is supposed to do with little or no support. That was not a fun time. However, the system does work, only very very slowly. So if there is some rule banning confederate flags, it was not in effect at that time. Long story, but one that could make a movie.
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SSgt John Carroll
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Edited 10 y ago
1/2) Personally I don't care & seeing as I went to High School with a guy who not only had that on the back of his truck, on a giant belt buckle he wore proudly everyday & put it on his class ring, oh I forgot to mention yes he was black. That's right because he was born & raised in the south and had Southern Pride he loved the "Southern Flag." All I think when I see it is "Where are you from?"
(3) To answer this one here some info The Chaplain when I first got to McConnell was laid back & since I have an "Open-Christian" view on religion (I pull from many religions due to similarities) So i got a bumper sticker "333 Half Evil" That chaplain got it, no one was created perfect & all that. This is the Chaplain that was invited to my wedding as a guest.
After he left the new Chaplain saw me at the bank on base & his IMMEDIATE response; no hi, hey , how are you... nope straight to "What the hell is this, Are you some sort of Devil Worshiper; I don't ever want to see this again, you aught to be ashamed of yourself!" After resisting the urge to return the verbal lashing, I got into my truck & drove off never really bothered with chaplains since. if even 1 man with so low humility, who was so overbearing & disrespectful was to call himself a Chaplain then I wasn't going to bother going to that "Chapel" on Base again.
The problem is if you are going to be in the military you ARE going to have many people from many backgrounds if someone can't loose the ready, fire, aim attitude then they will never fully integrate anywhere they go & will be the one to suffer because when they've burned all the bridges in the first week somewhere, things will only keep going down hill from there & they'll will be the problem, no one else should have to take blame for someone else's ignorance.
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SPC Charles Brown
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We live in a country where there was slavery under the Union Jack for about 200 years, and each flag that developed between 1776 and 1860. Around 384 years of these flags, and people are screaming about a "nation" that only existed for 4 years. Where is the indignation about slavery still being in existence in the Northern states during the civil war?

By my figuring the ratio runs about 96:1
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SPC Charles Brown
SPC Charles Brown
9 y
Don't sir me, you don't know me and I work for a living.
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CPT Student
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On Lee-Jackson Day, confederate re-enactors come to VMI to display confederate flags all over the front of the school.
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CPT Student
CPT (Join to see)
10 y
Everyone just ignores them. They understand that our school fought for the confederacy and that stonewall jackson was a teacher here. It is a part of the history that we can't change.
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LTC Paul Labrador
LTC Paul Labrador
10 y
So you ignore the feelings of minority cadets....regardless of what they are?
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CPT Student
CPT (Join to see)
10 y
I didn't say that. The African American population of vmi makes up less than 1 percent. They know coming to vmi that the school has a confederate background and they choose to come here anyway. It is the the townies and civil war junkies that participate in lee Jackson day not the school itself. There is nothing that can be done about the takeover for the day and so the school ignores it and continues on as usual.
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PFC Eric Minchey
PFC Eric Minchey
10 y
Cadet 2LT Alexandra Hastings, sounds to me like the Cadets at VMI have the right mindset on this issue. If everyone could just understand that it is a part of our history and that we can't change it. A lot of problems & issues regrading the Confederate flag would not exist.
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PFC Eric Minchey
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Edited 10 y ago
The "Dispelling the propaganda" series
This is a series of videos to dispell and debunk 150 years of union propaganda and false accusations surrounding the Confederacy.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBA40FAD452C861F7
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