Posted on Aug 22, 2014
Feelings on displaying the Confederate flag on your POV or person while on a military installation?
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Recently, I had a long and heated discussion with a fellow veteran about this issue. I don't know for sure whether a branch-specific reg or a DoD-wide reg exists that prohibits/allows personnel on a military installation to display the Confederate flag on their personal vehicle or on their person (e.g. a belt buckle). Maybe this is a base-specific policy and left to the judgment of the installation commander. Display of the Confederate flag is a divisive issue and people often feel really strongly one way or the other. But today, it is still a relevant topic and touches on other military leadership/discipline areas, including the actions of one member deeply offending another member -- regardless of whether said action is legal/authorized. That can create huge problems in a military unit, and this happened in a unit I personally served in. So, below are my questions for the RallyPoint community about this issue.
Please try to keep comments professional (don't attack one another) and explain your thoughts as best you can.
Questions:
(1) How do you feel about the Confederate flag being displayed on the vehicle/person of a service member if he/she is ON post? How does your opinion change if the member is OFF post?
(2) What does the Confederate flag symbolize to you personally? What do you think it can symbolize to other people around you who may perceive it differently?
(3) If you have personally experienced a military-related situation where a symbol/flag caused someone to be offended, what happened and what did you/would you have done as the leader?
I look fwd to everyone's thoughts on this. Personally, I have some strong feelings about this issue, though I don't want to bias people's answers upfront. Please be as honest as possible.
Tag: SSG Emily Williams Col (Join to see) 1SG Steven Stankovich SSG Scott Williams 1LT Sandy Annala CPT (Join to see) SSG V. Michelle Woods MSG Carl Cunningham
Please try to keep comments professional (don't attack one another) and explain your thoughts as best you can.
Questions:
(1) How do you feel about the Confederate flag being displayed on the vehicle/person of a service member if he/she is ON post? How does your opinion change if the member is OFF post?
(2) What does the Confederate flag symbolize to you personally? What do you think it can symbolize to other people around you who may perceive it differently?
(3) If you have personally experienced a military-related situation where a symbol/flag caused someone to be offended, what happened and what did you/would you have done as the leader?
I look fwd to everyone's thoughts on this. Personally, I have some strong feelings about this issue, though I don't want to bias people's answers upfront. Please be as honest as possible.
Tag: SSG Emily Williams Col (Join to see) 1SG Steven Stankovich SSG Scott Williams 1LT Sandy Annala CPT (Join to see) SSG V. Michelle Woods MSG Carl Cunningham
Regulation
Policy
Respect
Confederate Flag
Edited 10 y ago
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 326
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I have deep-rooted love for the CSA and what it represented. Many, many people will argue to no end about the causes of the US Civil War without knowing anything about events that led up to the armed conflict. To me, the war was about a states' right to nullify federal laws that a state's leaders felt were bad for a largely rural South. The abolition of slavery became a tactical position that was taken by the leaders of the Union to create chaos in the "states in a state of rebellion." Slavery was wrong. But it occurred over 150 years ago.
All that being said, the Battle Standard of the Army of Northern Virginia (most people couldn't pick a real CSA flag out of a line-up) remains a divisive symbol. ANY SYMBOL that stands in contrary to the good order, dicipline, and cohesion of a fighting unit should be strictly prohibited by leadership. Same should apply across the board. CSA memorabilia, Black Power regalia, White Power regalia, Mexican flags, African Flags, Crusaders Flags, etc. (Don't read into what I included or excluded in that last statement. Really! Don't be a Sally Sue.) Remember...we are in the business of winning wars not popularity contests.
All that being said, the Battle Standard of the Army of Northern Virginia (most people couldn't pick a real CSA flag out of a line-up) remains a divisive symbol. ANY SYMBOL that stands in contrary to the good order, dicipline, and cohesion of a fighting unit should be strictly prohibited by leadership. Same should apply across the board. CSA memorabilia, Black Power regalia, White Power regalia, Mexican flags, African Flags, Crusaders Flags, etc. (Don't read into what I included or excluded in that last statement. Really! Don't be a Sally Sue.) Remember...we are in the business of winning wars not popularity contests.
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MSgt (Join to see)
Read the cessation documents written by the southern states. That pretty much spells out what they were concerned about. Take note of the first reason almost every one declares. This does not forgive the North of their abduction of resources from the South, but it didn't seem to be first on the minds of the Southern states declarations.
https://www.civilwar.org/learn/primary-sources/declaration-causes-seceding-states
https://www.civilwar.org/learn/primary-sources/declaration-causes-seceding-states
The Declaration of Causes of Seceding States | Civil War Trust
The Declaration of Causes made by Georgia, Mississippi, South Carolina, and Texas.
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I will ever only hoist one flag on a pole above my head. She is beautiful, she is 13 stripes red and white with a field of blue and white stars. No other is worthy of my effort.
This flag has only been used by the Klan, by those in opposition of segregation, those against equal rights and finally by those who honor the South's willingness to stand up and rebel against what they believed to be an oppressive government. This flag was never carried into battle against the north. The Northern Virginia battle flag was "square." Today however, I think the majority of people who wave it are simply proud of their Southern heritage. Still there are a great many people who wave this flag with respect to racism. So, I don't get why peaceful caring people would want to associate themselves with the same flag carried by the Klan and those who oppose equality.
So, my personal opinion is that,
When this flag was square and used as a battle flag, it lost.
When it opposed the 14th & 15th amendment in 1868, it lost.
When opposition carried this flag in opposition of segregation in 1954 & 1964, it lost.
The Klan carried this flag for many year and they are but a memory today, They lost.
So, in my view anyone who carries this flag is a loser. History proves it.
I just giggle to myself when I see losers waving it.
Still, I get how some people see it as every thing good about the South. Why choose such a historical symbol of hatred to represent you? I don't get it.
The swastika was original a sign of peace and good fortune in many cultures around the world. Yet today, we can only see it for how it represented German Imperialism in the late 1930 and early 1940s. So, which emblem is worse? And why does any symbol have to have one meaning to everyone.
https://aratta.wordpress.com/the-history-of-the-swastika/
This flag has only been used by the Klan, by those in opposition of segregation, those against equal rights and finally by those who honor the South's willingness to stand up and rebel against what they believed to be an oppressive government. This flag was never carried into battle against the north. The Northern Virginia battle flag was "square." Today however, I think the majority of people who wave it are simply proud of their Southern heritage. Still there are a great many people who wave this flag with respect to racism. So, I don't get why peaceful caring people would want to associate themselves with the same flag carried by the Klan and those who oppose equality.
So, my personal opinion is that,
When this flag was square and used as a battle flag, it lost.
When it opposed the 14th & 15th amendment in 1868, it lost.
When opposition carried this flag in opposition of segregation in 1954 & 1964, it lost.
The Klan carried this flag for many year and they are but a memory today, They lost.
So, in my view anyone who carries this flag is a loser. History proves it.
I just giggle to myself when I see losers waving it.
Still, I get how some people see it as every thing good about the South. Why choose such a historical symbol of hatred to represent you? I don't get it.
The swastika was original a sign of peace and good fortune in many cultures around the world. Yet today, we can only see it for how it represented German Imperialism in the late 1930 and early 1940s. So, which emblem is worse? And why does any symbol have to have one meaning to everyone.
https://aratta.wordpress.com/the-history-of-the-swastika/
The earliest swastika known has been found in Mezine, Ukraine. It is carved on late paleolithic figurine of mammoth ivory, being dated as early as about 10,000 BC. It has been suggested this swasti…
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MSgt (Join to see)
GySgt Stephen Anderson - Why are you telling me the Nazis aren't the only ones who used the swastika? I way more than wrote and proved that.
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MSgt (Join to see)
GySgt Stephen Anderson - Would have been better understood had you liked my comment. Sorry, I misunderstood.
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It would depend on why you are displaying it? Heritage or hatred? Yes, the south was defeated but I believe that congress declared confederate soldiers to be US military veterans. I see people with memorials to fallen friends, family, and comrades on their vehicles and tat’s on their bodies. Is there a difference just because it is the starts and bars? Would you tell someone to get rid of their “in memory of” display? Just saying….
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I say fly or decorate away. As long as they don't disrespect the US flag or myself I could give two shits about it.
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1. Display of the Confederate battle flag on post is probably not a good idea if it's large and obvious, such as an actual flag or a central element of a T-shirt imprint or such. If it's inconspicuous, I have no issue with it. Off post, it doesn't bother me in the slightest if someone wants to have a Confederate battle flag on a pole outside their house, mounted on his/her truck, or emblazoned on his or her clothing. That said, the only uniform that should be worn when prominently displaying that flag is a Confederate uniform, and only when participating in a function, like a historical parade or Civil War reenactment, at which wear of a Confederate uniform is appropriate. If someone wants to make a stink about it off-post, then that's the problem of the person making the stink and the person with the flag. They'll work it out.
2. The Confederate battle flag symbolizes the armies of the Confederacy. They fought bravely, well, and honorably, the same as their estranged brothers who fought for the US. In that sense, it's no different than the regimental standards of German units (I'll agree that the SS units are a special case) that were raised during WW2 -- military organizations who did their duty to their country to the best of their ability. It's a military flag that has been hijacked and disgraced by racist SOBs who think that it's a pro-slavery banner, and now far too many people believe that the only thing the Confederate battle flag has ever symbolized is anti-black racism or white supremacy.
3. Nope. Never saw it.
2. The Confederate battle flag symbolizes the armies of the Confederacy. They fought bravely, well, and honorably, the same as their estranged brothers who fought for the US. In that sense, it's no different than the regimental standards of German units (I'll agree that the SS units are a special case) that were raised during WW2 -- military organizations who did their duty to their country to the best of their ability. It's a military flag that has been hijacked and disgraced by racist SOBs who think that it's a pro-slavery banner, and now far too many people believe that the only thing the Confederate battle flag has ever symbolized is anti-black racism or white supremacy.
3. Nope. Never saw it.
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A romanian friend and I were discussing this a few weeks ago and he brought up valid point that changed my view. While I grew up seeing this flag in my country town in Maryland I never had positive or negative feelings towards it. I had looked towards it as something historic and of free speech to those who liked it. But my friend told me reminded me the confederacy lost the war and it's "right" to slavery. He reminded me that that you don't see Germany flying the nazi flag anymore either and what it stood for. Boom. I now look at that flag in the same way. I no long believe it should be a sing of pride as only one group of people really fly it
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SGT (Join to see)
I know that the northern part of maryland was for slavery where there was more plantations and south was anti slavery. But the maryland flag was older than that. My logic is that represented a side l that lost the war as did the nazis. Germany doesn't fly that flag for obvious reasons. While not all southerners are racist the flag has been represented by some of those beleifs and is seen as such
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MY FEELING.... (1) Do not care in either case
(2) history....southern pride ; to others.....a variety of responses....some consider it a racist symbol reflecting white supremacist feelings
(3) Had a black panther SFC once tell me "Kojak, I do not like you" I asked him why?.....He said, "Mainly because you are white' I responded with a smile "There is not much I can do about that"..... he looked in my eyes and said..... " But I respect you"....I looked back and said "That is all any man can reasonably expect"
The flag was not much of a problem in my time but racism has always been a problem.....
NOW lets get to the heart of the problem.... For many people....perception is reality.....If it looks like a duck....walks like a duck....dresses like a duck......for many it is a duck even though it is a goose..... You want to wear the flag.....display the flag..... appear to many as a "racist" even though you are not a racist..... that is your option..... but remember there is a price for being John Wayne..... it will impact your life and how people will see and respond to you..... the likelihood it will adversely impact you is higher than the chance it will help you.....if people perceive you as a racist....they will see racism in you even when it does not exist....
CONTROL.....you can control you.....but you can not control how others feel about you.....and not seeing how your actions hurt or irritate others....has a price.....just do not complain when you pay a price for being John Wayne
(2) history....southern pride ; to others.....a variety of responses....some consider it a racist symbol reflecting white supremacist feelings
(3) Had a black panther SFC once tell me "Kojak, I do not like you" I asked him why?.....He said, "Mainly because you are white' I responded with a smile "There is not much I can do about that"..... he looked in my eyes and said..... " But I respect you"....I looked back and said "That is all any man can reasonably expect"
The flag was not much of a problem in my time but racism has always been a problem.....
NOW lets get to the heart of the problem.... For many people....perception is reality.....If it looks like a duck....walks like a duck....dresses like a duck......for many it is a duck even though it is a goose..... You want to wear the flag.....display the flag..... appear to many as a "racist" even though you are not a racist..... that is your option..... but remember there is a price for being John Wayne..... it will impact your life and how people will see and respond to you..... the likelihood it will adversely impact you is higher than the chance it will help you.....if people perceive you as a racist....they will see racism in you even when it does not exist....
CONTROL.....you can control you.....but you can not control how others feel about you.....and not seeing how your actions hurt or irritate others....has a price.....just do not complain when you pay a price for being John Wayne
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