Posted on Jul 8, 2015
Everything else in the Army is changing/evolving, why not this? What would you change about Army PRT and the APFT if you could?
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The Army has been changing/evolving in almost every aspect. Why not this? I know some of you are firm believers in the Army PRT system. Which it does have a lot of good things built into it but how many Brigades, units, companies, ect...actually utilise the program like it was meant? I would personally like to see a shift more towards strength training and proper nutrition which are key factors in building usable muscle and overall health. We are the nations force so why not look the part and be the strongest and healthiest we can be. We can still use the same principles and use phases to strengthen each service member as they get stronger. Heavy weight and low reps is the most effective way to gain strength in the least amount of time and also gives you a well prepared, less prone to injury, and healthier service member. I firmly believe it's essential to teach nutrition, which is 90% of any workout program to get the best results. You can bust you're ass in the gym day in and day out but if you're not taking in what you're body needs then your efforts are mostly for nothing.
The APFT is laughable at best. What do these 3 events tell anyone? That you can do x number of push-ups and sit-ups within 2 minutes and run 2 miles in x amount of time. I've seen some pretty out of shape soldiers max the push-up and sit-up portions with no problems but of course they always fail the run most of the time, but most of them still complete the run... Which makes me ask the question... What are we actually measuring here? I would love to see a more combat oriented style PT test which would actually measure you're ability for combat operations. I won't go into detail because this post is getting a little long but I do have many ideas on what could be used to measure these competencies. I want to hear some other service members thoughts on what they believe should be changed ( if anything).
The APFT is laughable at best. What do these 3 events tell anyone? That you can do x number of push-ups and sit-ups within 2 minutes and run 2 miles in x amount of time. I've seen some pretty out of shape soldiers max the push-up and sit-up portions with no problems but of course they always fail the run most of the time, but most of them still complete the run... Which makes me ask the question... What are we actually measuring here? I would love to see a more combat oriented style PT test which would actually measure you're ability for combat operations. I won't go into detail because this post is getting a little long but I do have many ideas on what could be used to measure these competencies. I want to hear some other service members thoughts on what they believe should be changed ( if anything).
APFT
Infantry
PRT (Army)
Army
Posted >1 y ago
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I have been in the Army for 28 years and it has only slightly changed over that period. I personally believe that the Army needs to evolve in more ways than just PRT, APFT, uniform, etc. We need fresh leadership almost down to the BDE level. Many of the regulations need to be overhauled, I know AR 670-1 was just revamped but it went backward instead of forward.
We will slowly lose the knowledge we have gained over the past 14 years of combat and the "old Guys" will revert back to what they know. I think SMA Dailey is doing a great job initially and I hope he stays on track, he is a Soldiers Soldier and listens to what we have to say. Not only does he listen he actually takes action.
A good place to start is with political correctness and the catering to every cry baby. That's one old way that needs to be brought back and incorporated into the evolved Army. Need to have discipline in order to be an effective fighting force.
We will slowly lose the knowledge we have gained over the past 14 years of combat and the "old Guys" will revert back to what they know. I think SMA Dailey is doing a great job initially and I hope he stays on track, he is a Soldiers Soldier and listens to what we have to say. Not only does he listen he actually takes action.
A good place to start is with political correctness and the catering to every cry baby. That's one old way that needs to be brought back and incorporated into the evolved Army. Need to have discipline in order to be an effective fighting force.
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The big thing to remember is what each "thing" is trying to do or measure.
The APFT (Physical FITNESS Test) is a measure of Health. Although it supports "Readiness" and "Combat Effectiveness" it is not a measurement of either.
I spout this a lot, but we're trying to make a hammer put in screws. For whatever reason, most people just cannot get past the idea that because there is a physical aspect to all of these, they are somehow linked. They are not. Just like Ruck Marching and APFT aren't linked.
So, as you said, we (the services) do need to evolve and develop good tests for measuring combat effectiveness, and good programs to support that, but we also need to do a good job of explaining what the purpose of our current programs are for as well.
The APFT (Physical FITNESS Test) is a measure of Health. Although it supports "Readiness" and "Combat Effectiveness" it is not a measurement of either.
I spout this a lot, but we're trying to make a hammer put in screws. For whatever reason, most people just cannot get past the idea that because there is a physical aspect to all of these, they are somehow linked. They are not. Just like Ruck Marching and APFT aren't linked.
So, as you said, we (the services) do need to evolve and develop good tests for measuring combat effectiveness, and good programs to support that, but we also need to do a good job of explaining what the purpose of our current programs are for as well.
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SSgt (Join to see)
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
This is why I'm studying for certification for the NSCA TSAC-F (National Strength & Conditioning Association's Tactical Strength And Conditioning - Facilitator). It is personal trainer certification focused on military, LE, Fire, Emergency personnel needs. They realize that these members need more than push-ups, sit-ups, & 1.5-2 mi run to have the physical strength & endurance to perform. Those exercises only work specific muscles, most of which aren't utilized during our job.
This is why I'm studying for certification for the NSCA TSAC-F (National Strength & Conditioning Association's Tactical Strength And Conditioning - Facilitator). It is personal trainer certification focused on military, LE, Fire, Emergency personnel needs. They realize that these members need more than push-ups, sit-ups, & 1.5-2 mi run to have the physical strength & endurance to perform. Those exercises only work specific muscles, most of which aren't utilized during our job.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
SSgt (Join to see) This sways "along the spectrum" from Health to Function, if that makes sense.
We do Push-ups/Pull-ups, Sit-ups, & Running because it's "simple." We do Height/Weight, because it's simple. They are simple, easy, measurements of Health, and generally speaking they are hard to screw up.
The more Function related we get, the exponentially more complex it gets, especially when we deal with LOTS of people.
I love the idea of function related testing, but I question whether we we can actually apply it "across the board."
We do Push-ups/Pull-ups, Sit-ups, & Running because it's "simple." We do Height/Weight, because it's simple. They are simple, easy, measurements of Health, and generally speaking they are hard to screw up.
The more Function related we get, the exponentially more complex it gets, especially when we deal with LOTS of people.
I love the idea of function related testing, but I question whether we we can actually apply it "across the board."
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SSgt (Join to see)
Yup. Once I get that certification, you can damn well bet that's one of the main focuses I'll have, even if it only is presented to the MO Nat'l Guard!
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Military seldom gets this one right. Concept: Be on the crew, not the baggage train. However, the supply/support train is usually larger than the warrior base. Every soldier should first be a rifleman, regardless of any other status, gender. There should be a realistic, common-core standard for each soldier to carry his/own weight and to function as part of the soldier-team based on current deployment realities. There should be an additional common-core standard for each MOS and unit mission also based on realities. Push ups, Sit ups, and running in tennis shoes doesn't tell us much in that regard. Martial Arts builds confidence. Would you rather have a unit clerk or medic who can run a marathon or one who is competent first as a soldier and second in their MOS? Or how about the fellow who can lift 400 pounds and carry two 50 cal machine guns with full gear, but who cannot run one mile?
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