Posted on Jan 29, 2014
SPC Adam W.
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Yes, it is of course still illegal federally, but if and when it does become legal, do you see the military allowing it on any sort of recreational level?
Posted in these groups: Ucmj UCMJSwedish marijuana blog nine Marijuana
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SPC(P) Assistant Operations Nco
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Leave weed to the people that need it to replace opium based drugs and provide a better quality of life to people that are not involved in the safety of those around you. As a guard member, I am faced with the temptation every day, best friends, debilitated family members and an artistic girlfriend. With weed, its too easy for people to go from the once a night to twice a night, to "eh one in the am wont matter", to wake and bake, to every few hours. It will erode soldiers resiliency, as it allows the person to not deal with daily stresses, and let issues compound unnoticed. People do lose their edge, and begin to not care about about mundane issues, which lead to mediocre issues, which lead to not giving a shit about huge things because, well "chill out sir" just seemed like the right thing to say. This is a professional organization that is based on accomplishing a mission. Nothing about weed is conducive to that. Its nonnegotiable, there are no positive effects to allowing mary to enter our ranks, if it means putting even one soldier at risk because someone abused it. It may be alright of pass time for office jockeys, accountants, and software engineers, but not for someone involved in the safety of others.

 I challenge anyone who disagrees to fly on an over seas flight with pilots that rec'd up last night, to rely on first responders who decided a midday poke wouldn't hurt anything, or rely on the  FSCOORD that is in charge of coordinating fire support for a PLT conducting ground ops in AFGHAN. If they are alright with that then I say GTFO out our ranks, and choose recreation over what they have worked for because my family doesn't need to attend a funeral because someone decided to smoke some weed.
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SFC Signal Support Systems Specialist
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I like your statement that you have made. With that being said, that brings me to say, with your statement in mind, the same treatment should be given to alcohol. If you want to drink then get out of the ranks because you could put someone's life in danger. Not being sarcastic. On the other side, if they did legalize it, you shouldn't be allowed to use it atleast 30 prior to possible knowledge of deployment.
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SFC Maintenance Control Nco
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Should it be legalized/decriminalized?/Should the military allow its use?

Yes, it should be legalized/decriminalized. It's use in the military should be restricted to medical purposes. As with everything in life, this should be handled on a case by case basis. Rule followers follow rules. Non-rule followers don't. If life was so simply that you could write a rule on a piece of paper and control human behavior in absolutes, we would have no need for a military.

Would this be a good thing, a bad thing, or nothing at all?

Undecided.
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1SG Company First Sergeant
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I think if enough medical people or sceintists look hard enough, they will find that just about anything that is illegal has some kind of "healing" factor for something. My personal feeling is that if someone has an illness that can "only" be cured by long term use of mood/mind altering substances then a med board would likely be in the best interest of the Soldier as well as the Army.
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SGT Ait Student
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Continuing to ban the use of Marijuana is to continue a policy of being hypocrites and showing we really do not care about Soldiers.  Fort Bragg 24 hour shoppette set a world record for the amount of alcohol sold in a 24 hour period.  More Soldiers die every year from alcohol related incidents than combat.  Soldiers can and do show up "hungover" and sometimes even drunk.  We do not care.  We know there are behavioral problems with Soldiers in the barracks, we know there are functioning alcoholics among us and WE DO NOTHING until we are forced to.  And even then, if we are at war, who cares?  Two Soldiers in Kuwait abandoned their post to go get drunk and have extra marital relations with each other, one of which died on the way back to their guard post, and we still allow alcohol.  Alcohol is a major factor in sexual abuse.  We still allow it.  Alcohol use/abuse is a factor in a large number of suicides, and yet we still allow it.  When we do something about these issues, then i would listen to arguments as to continuing a ban on MJ.

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SSG V. Michelle Woods
SSG V. Michelle Woods
11 y
Before anyone says it, yes, you're correct, two wrongs don't make a right. Just because we allow one bad thing (alcohol) doesn't mean we should open the flood gates to all those "evil" things.

However, maybe that's not the point. Maybe the point is if those who fervently oppose the legalization of weed spent that much time and energy opposing alcohol, you would gain more respect for your argument. This much passion against weed, in my opinion, is like fighting against violent cartoons instead of actual violence. Yes violent cartoons are bad. They infect our society and normalize violence of all types. However violence in reality should be addressed first. 

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SSG V. Michelle Woods
SSG V. Michelle Woods
11 y
SSG Redondo
That's fine, down vote without ever contributing to mine or anyone else's discussions. I'm sorry you feel that way but thank you for unintentionally reminding me that I'm a Christian. The Bible says to avoid Godless chatter and I have spent too much time on a topic I don't even care about. 
I just want people to start thinking about things instead of believing what they're told, regardless whether they agree with me or feel otherwise. 
Have a blessed day. 
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SGT Ait Student
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11 y
SSG Woods,  I am not sure what exactly you got from my post.  I was hoping to convey two points.  First, yes marijuana should be legalized with similar restrictions to any other drug we allow.  Second, the military does not allow or disallow things based on science, they do it based on the leading generals moral imperatives for or against things until SCOTUS forces them to do otherwise.  This is why the military is resistant to change, luckily as a government agency we are open to critique and can be forced to change policies.  This means we are normally ahead of the power curve for doing the right thing vice the American public.  And lastly, we do not care enough about Soldiers.  We do what we have to when we have to but do not do enough to ensure the health and wellfare of our Soldiers.  This is why DUIs are still a problem, why Soldiers are still beating their families, and why there is such a high rate of suicide.  I include myself in this because it is a systemic problem and not a problem of individuals.

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MSG David Kalb
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Would you trust the plane/tank/ship/weapons system you rely on, and by that I mean your life, on the maintenance/operation done by an individual who is or was 'mildly' high? You don't for a person who drinks....any difference?
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SSgt George Brown
SSgt George Brown
11 y
This reminds me of something totally unrelated to the subject, but on trusting what you are operating to someone.  
I was in a TabV hanger doing some last minute 7 level checks when the Wing Commander and a 1st lt came in to do a preflight. There was something, but I cannot remember what it was, that the crew chief had not done.  The 1st lt. thinking to impress the Wing Commander, started chewing the Crew Chief out, the Wing Commander walked over him and said, "You do not know who is responsible to keep your plane in the air, do you?"  I could see the wheels turning in the 1st lt's eyes, and he did not say anything else.
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MSG David Kalb
MSG David Kalb
11 y

Ha, could have been me. I was an AC Maint Supervisor and we gave a UH-1 back to the unit and I got a call from my Maint Off about a complaint the ADF wasn't working. I drove over to the unit and the CO was in the helo performing a flight check and waved me over. He pointed to the dead dial. I looked at it, remembered my basic electronics for helo indicators and saw that

one of the AC circuit beakers was off. I switched it on, the needle swung around on the dial and I said 'You can't rush the check list.' The CO gave me a thumbs up and proceeded to yell at the co-pilot holding the check list....

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MAJ Joseph Parker
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<p>SPC Wallace: Very doubtful that will ever happen. MJ has cumulative and lasting effects on cognitive functions. Also, even though recreation drinking of alcohol is permitted; punishment for abuse is severe (I'm assuming a DWI is still a career ending offense). Soldiers need to be ready for duty at all times and good soldiers know it. The best&nbsp;and most trusted, those in PRP, are not allowed&nbsp;mentally-impairing prescription drugs or procedures of any kind. </p><p><br></p><p>Frankly, were I to be a commander of a combat unit with members known to be users of MJ, I'd leave them behind on deployment. Same for the alcoholics. They will get somebody killed. If a soldier is that selfish that they feel that their own gratification for a "buzz"&nbsp;is more important than the unit's combat cohesion, the survival of their combat buddy, and the accomplishment of the mission to protect the country;&nbsp;then they shouldn't be in the service in the first place.&nbsp;That goes for every single SM, even if they don't push bullets. I wouldn't want any wounded soldier coming back to an evac hospital with med personnel who can't see straight, or transport people with movers full of ammo, chow, and water who can't find the unit, or even an AG type who is so numb headed as to send a message out to somebody's mama with the wrong name.&nbsp;</p><p><br></p><p>Go back to 9/11 for a minute. Suppose an SM had been on MJ right then, or even drunk on alcohol (an SM anywhere in the world, so don't get picky with the time of day). Now go ahead and make the excuse for the SM not being ready, and tell all of us in RP how that circumstance could&nbsp;NEVER happen again. It doesn't matter what the government ever makes "legal". Our duty is clear. </p>
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SFC Michael Hasbun
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Edited 11 y ago

I think so. Alcohol is about a thousand times worse than marijuana has ever been, but it has better PR and lobbyists.

 

 If the military allows alcohol, which kills thousands a year, and destroys just as many careers and causes double again as many disciplinary incidents, I don't think marijuana is all that far behind.

 

That's like allowing people to carry shotguns but banning BB guns.

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SFC Michael Hasbun
SFC Michael Hasbun
11 y
Agreed, but since the vice is so popular, that will never happen. Problems aren't problems if they're systemic, inculcated into your culture and popular.
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SGT Cda 564, Assistant Team Sergeant
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11 y
<div><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">&nbsp;A cut and paste from above:</span></div><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><div><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br></span></div>The fact that Alcohol is a more dangerous substance has absolutely no bearing on the legalization of MJ. Two wrongs dont make a right. If we are so concerned that Alcohol is a far worse drug, then lets make Alcohol illegal again not weed legal. Makes no common sense. Rape is worse than running stop signs, so lets make running stop signs legal???</span><div><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br></span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Murder is worse than Rape so lets make rape legal. &nbsp;Or Rape is worse than murder so lets make murder legal??</span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br></span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">I just simply dont understand how the lesser of two wrongs isnt still a wrong in some peoples eyes!&nbsp;</span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br></span></div>
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SFC Michael Hasbun
SFC Michael Hasbun
11 y
Which brings up the question which I think the whole thread hints at, why would the military allow alcohol, which is exceedingly harmful and has no positive benefits, but ban MJ (ignore legalities for the purpose for this thread), which is far less harmful? What's the criteria? Force of habit? Which drug has the best lobbyist?
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SFC Michael Hasbun
SFC Michael Hasbun
10 y
But meanwhile, the class VI on post is usually double the size and far more elaborate then clothing sales... Our priorities are tragically skewed.
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SFC James Baber
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I have a two-pronged answer on this that is going to seem contradictorily, but please read through completely to understand where I am going.


For recreational purposes I would say no, because even if it is federally recognized, it would still be not operationally good for your job as a Soldier, it does make you more than just lethargic, it does have issue with memory loss and comprehension while under the influence, so that would not be good in the functional sense, and potentially dangerous depending on your job at the time.


But for medicinal purposes I would say yes, it has been proven to be helpful for many in the areas of pain relief to include cancer patients for chemo sickness and pain, PTSD sufferers, TBI sufferers, eating disorders, Lupus, diabetics, and many more. The medical community has embraced its uses and helpful capabilities. This could be a controlled environment via the senior leadership of MEDCOM command at each installation and MTF. While I know the detractors are going to say, well everyone will come up with an illness to receive it for care, but this would initially be limited to patients pending medical discharge/retirement from their ailments/injuries, and then possibly way in the future after years of being controlled and monitored consider expanding it for other SMs that are being treated and allowed to return to regular duty after either being healed for their injury/illnesses or cleared medically to return to duty.


I know this sounds weird coming from someone who spent the better part of 3 decades enforcing the law, but I have never felt that marijuana was a major problem, it is not a gateway drug as has always been portrayed, MJ users are not violent criminals as with other illegal drug users, and the only problems that you may with an MJ user is sleeping too much or possibly being overweight from always having the "munchies" with use. It is not addictive, as is alcohol and cigarettes, and no one has died from MJ use, as they have with alcohol and cigarettes, no one has ever had seizures from MJ use as they have from alcohol use. I could go on, but I think the point is made.


I understand many peoples beliefs and opinions on the issue, and I respect and don't criticize those, so hopefully I can receive the same courtesies as well. I just don't see MJ use for medical purposes as harmful or detrimental for its use within the military under these guidelines.  

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SFC Signal Support Systems Specialist
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I feel like you make valid points to the topic at hand.
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SGT Cda 564, Assistant Team Sergeant
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I would be interested in some of the Vietnam Veterans outlook on this, as i understand it was common to smoke weed (and heroin use too) during the war then. Maybe some pros and cons that they witnessed or experienced first hand.
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SSG V. Michelle Woods
SSG V. Michelle Woods
11 y
Same here SGT Blackburn, that would be a unique perspective. 
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SFC Operations Supervisor
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11 y
My first NCOs were Vietnam veterans. I entered active duty in 1984. My drill sergeant was a vietnam vet, 1st Cav. Several others followed. The last I can remember is an E8 I served with in the 82nd. He served with the 173rd and 82nd over there. Now the E8 had plenty of drug use stories, and it showed. There was also CSM Acosta who told us when he took over as CSM for 3/319th that 'if you do drugs, you should be killed'. He had 5 tours there with the 1st CAV. In closing, you'd get different opinions from each one. I'd say there was an adverse affect overall, from what I observed.
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SSG V. Michelle Woods
SSG V. Michelle Woods
11 y
Dang...that's some Old Testament punishment right there...
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SSG Reporting, Analysis & Production Ncoic
SSG (Join to see)
11 y
My dad is a Vietnam veteran, and he use to tell me stories all the time about how they would smoke weed, and snort coke. He said it was a common thing back then. That's how they coped. But a lot of veterans came back with nasty habits.
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SSG Bruce Burgess
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Of course it does. Israel uses it effectively for their PTSD affected Veterans. Why not us? They are on to something.

http://www.haaretz.com/life/science-medicine/1.614356
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