Posted on Feb 23, 2015
Does anyone (Do we) ever get good at adverse counselings?
4.94K
16
10
2
2
0
I was in the Army for almost 33 years, and I always hated when I had to do an adverse counseling on someone.... Luckily they were far and few between, but I did them, and did not like them nonetheless. I had to counsel subordinates as PL (to a PSG that was 15 years my senior), as a Company Commander, a Battalion Commander, a Brigade Commander, and even now in retirement... (or semi-retirement.)
I can teach it, I have Masters degree in Counseling, but I still do not like it, and will never like the ones that are adverse, and hence are adversarial.
This is also the topic we are working on in my class... "counseling and performance indicators"... So, I am interested in your thoughts to help be a better teacher. I am training the next generation of Leaders.
I am interested in your thoughts and guidance.
I can teach it, I have Masters degree in Counseling, but I still do not like it, and will never like the ones that are adverse, and hence are adversarial.
This is also the topic we are working on in my class... "counseling and performance indicators"... So, I am interested in your thoughts to help be a better teacher. I am training the next generation of Leaders.
I am interested in your thoughts and guidance.
Posted in these groups: 
Guidance
Guidance
Edited 10 y ago
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 7
3
3
0
I have had to do formal negative counseling a lot more in my civilian role(s) than in my military ones - though I have had to do it there as well.
I find four related things things to be key:
1. I am not interested in what was intended or "meant". I am here to discuss performance, not "attitude" or state of mind.
2. I am interested in facts. What happened. The factors that lead up to the event. There is a lot of confusion between #1 and #2 in most people's minds. Can require a lot of patience going over the same ground until they get it.
3. I have a behavioral outlook. I don't desire for you to "fix your attitude." I desire for you to exhibit the behaviors I expect of a computer programmer/project manager/NCOIC/Soldier/Employee/Other Role.
4. Counseling is about desired future behavior. I touch on what was done in the past, but only to conduct a gap analysis (how does it compare to the desired behavior?). It is NOT disciplinary in nature (see below).
The above is written with a bias towards negative/corrective counseling, but it is exactly the same for positive counseling. "You did X well, Continue doing that!"
A major issue in my mind is that we conflate counseling (focused on desired future behavior) with discipline (adverse action because of behaviors already done). Thus, we tend to view counseling as adversarial. This in turn means that it is seen as a "big deal" and dreaded, which has the perverse effect of leading to less POSITIVE counseling. It also means that the counseled individual feels threatened and feels the need to "defend themselves."
There are various reasons, of course. A major one being the need to document counseling and attempts at correction before formal "discipline." Which gives us the famous "magic bullet" counseling statements.... For those who are wondering, it is essentially the same in civilian organizations. Except in the civilian organizations, you can often get away with not counseling or disciplining, if you are OK with not doing your job.
I don't know a good systemic approach to overcoming this. I know what I do, but I accept a certain amount of risk, and would not recommend it as an organization-wide policy.
I find four related things things to be key:
1. I am not interested in what was intended or "meant". I am here to discuss performance, not "attitude" or state of mind.
2. I am interested in facts. What happened. The factors that lead up to the event. There is a lot of confusion between #1 and #2 in most people's minds. Can require a lot of patience going over the same ground until they get it.
3. I have a behavioral outlook. I don't desire for you to "fix your attitude." I desire for you to exhibit the behaviors I expect of a computer programmer/project manager/NCOIC/Soldier/Employee/Other Role.
4. Counseling is about desired future behavior. I touch on what was done in the past, but only to conduct a gap analysis (how does it compare to the desired behavior?). It is NOT disciplinary in nature (see below).
The above is written with a bias towards negative/corrective counseling, but it is exactly the same for positive counseling. "You did X well, Continue doing that!"
A major issue in my mind is that we conflate counseling (focused on desired future behavior) with discipline (adverse action because of behaviors already done). Thus, we tend to view counseling as adversarial. This in turn means that it is seen as a "big deal" and dreaded, which has the perverse effect of leading to less POSITIVE counseling. It also means that the counseled individual feels threatened and feels the need to "defend themselves."
There are various reasons, of course. A major one being the need to document counseling and attempts at correction before formal "discipline." Which gives us the famous "magic bullet" counseling statements.... For those who are wondering, it is essentially the same in civilian organizations. Except in the civilian organizations, you can often get away with not counseling or disciplining, if you are OK with not doing your job.
I don't know a good systemic approach to overcoming this. I know what I do, but I accept a certain amount of risk, and would not recommend it as an organization-wide policy.
(3)
(0)
I think that the key is that it's not a surprise. If somebody receives a strong adverse counseling, but thought everything was fine, then it can lead to the adversarial situation you describe. However, if the supervisor has been open with the subordinate the entire time, then the counseling should just be a formal summary of what is going on, and not an unexpected discussion. Ideally, the formal counseling should be a summary of events, not an initial introduction of their observations.
The irony is that people will not give continuous feedback if it's negative for the same reason they don't like to give adverse counseling, but of course, that only leads to an even worse counseling experience when it finally has to be done.
The irony is that people will not give continuous feedback if it's negative for the same reason they don't like to give adverse counseling, but of course, that only leads to an even worse counseling experience when it finally has to be done.
(3)
(0)
SSG Chris Garabitos
Do one thing good and two things bad (not to 'standard') and what gets remembered? Counseling had been blown way out of proportion IMO. Simply put, counsel Soldiers for performance, event orientated, and professional growth-- good, bad or indifferent. We owe Soldiers a path upon which to succeed and eventually take our places once transition out of the unit or military.
(0)
(0)
Capt (Join to see)
I agree that it shouldn't be a surprise. A lot of times I see Fitness Reports in the Marine Corps being used as a counseling tool....which is wrong. I strive to counsel my Marines once every 30 days whether good or bad to let them know where they stand on either Proficiency/Conduct marks or on their billet description for their Fitness reports. I think if you wait to council a SM until their report is due then you are doing a disservice to that member.
I was always taught to start with something the SM did good followed by what they are doing wrong then end on a positive note with how they can improve themselves before their next counseling/FitRep.
I was always taught to start with something the SM did good followed by what they are doing wrong then end on a positive note with how they can improve themselves before their next counseling/FitRep.
(0)
(0)
COL Charles Williams
Unfortunately, most of the of sitatuons I am referring to were event oriented counselings for bad behavior or serious misconduct... Several had been counseled before about performance issues, some had not. On the performance counselings, that is another story, as for me, aside from several bosses, I was never counseled on performance or personal growth, until I was presented with and OER to read. Lots of examples about how not to do it.
(1)
(0)
2
2
0
If it is an adverse counseling versus a disciplinary proceeding, then , clearly, the member is valued team member that has erred in some way.
Explain the erroneous behavior, and why it is unacceptable.
Detail how the counselee must improve or atone and especially to what standard. This is most important. The person must know what remediation will satisfy you and regain your confidence.
Finally, outline what the individual is doing right. If they weren't valued, the counseling wouldn't be happening (they would be punished, discharged, etc)
The individual should depart the meeting feeling valued despite their Indiscretion or departure from standards and have a clear plan for recovery.
Explain the erroneous behavior, and why it is unacceptable.
Detail how the counselee must improve or atone and especially to what standard. This is most important. The person must know what remediation will satisfy you and regain your confidence.
Finally, outline what the individual is doing right. If they weren't valued, the counseling wouldn't be happening (they would be punished, discharged, etc)
The individual should depart the meeting feeling valued despite their Indiscretion or departure from standards and have a clear plan for recovery.
(2)
(0)
Read This Next
Continue with Facebook 
Continue with Google