Do you feel that Basic Combat Training and Advanced Individual Training are due a facelift?

I am retired, I went from putting them in boots as a recruiter for three years to a platoon sergeant in a ICTC. I was floored as to what the new Soldiers coming from BCT/AIT. There is no longer DS in AIT. They have SSG's or SGT's training them. The Army has moved to a kinder more gentle organization. We live in a different society and the Army also has to shift to fit that.

Sir, I just graduated from BCT sand felt like it was honestly too watered down. I mean it was still difficult, but there were some things that I thought would be more intensive.
As for AIT (where I am now) it seems to be broken in a lot of ways. There is a severe lack of discipline from soldiers in AIT, at least in the company in training in.

I began OSUT JAN2012. I don't know how far outside the norm our training was, but my experience was 16 weeks of limited food and sleep. A long night was 7 hrs, but we went days, even weeks at a time on 4-5. That certainly limits a recruits ability to learn tasks, but it certainly teaches the recruit to drive on! Our drill sergeants told us they wouldn't graduate someone that they wouldn't have in their squad or platoon. I don't know if it's true, but two drill sergeants in our company claimed to keep running bets on who could drop the most recruits per cycle. My basic training and AIT were much more an experience than a chance to learn much of anything. If that's what we need, then it certainly did it's job. Our drill sergeants told us over and over again, that their job wasn't to make trained combat engineers. It was to make trainable combat engineers. "My job it to make it so your first team leader has something to work with." If that's what the Army needs, and for that MOS, I believe it is; I think the training was pretty effective.

The biggest issue, I believe with the training was ineffective PT. Our drill sergeants told us the post had a policy that we couldn't PT when the temps fell below a certain temp (I don't know what it was), but we didn't do much for PT during most of Basic Training, other than get smoked inside the barracks. Our drill sergeants plainly told us that if we didn't do PT on our own time during personal time, many of us wouldn't pass the APFT. I and at least half my platoon took the advice.

Since getting to my unit, and then becoming an NCO myself, I've seen way too many troops get to the unit out of shape. There is no way that drill sergeants aren't pencil whipping APFTs down at Ft. Leonard Wood. The only solution I can come up with is to have recruits be administered an APFT immediately on reception, and those that can't meet certain minimums be put in a PT program before they can even begin training in a basic training company.

They were Do a Facelift when I was in 1974? But Now I think that Soldiers get away with too much Stuff their is no discipline and They Have No respect for the Parents and none for the NCO's that are training them. I also Know that they don't retain anything that you teach them
it sad that what the military was bad when I was in I remember when you had to I identify
rank by what it was and I remember I missed a silver oak leaf which was a LTC and I took Laps and said that a silver oak leaf is a LTC.
SSG MARK FRANZEN
USA VET

Absolutely. We've gotten soft. The focus of BCT and AIT needs to be about tough realistic training. It should be stressful, challenging, and weed out those who can't hack it. Instead we seem to be focused on anything else but that. I had new Infantrymen come to my Company less than 2 weeks out of Infantry OSUT who couldn't pass an APFT. Their discipline in many cases was also lacking. They were the rule, rather than the exception and that is simply unacceptable.

As a former BCT CDR, yes there are a lot of aspects of BCT/AIT that could be changed. When I first took over my initial cycle for their AIT, I heard how bad trainees were during BCT. I found out two week after I graduated my first class and stood up the next cycle. Never heard or seen so many trainees declare "Refuse to Train" as more than 20 of them were removed during the first week. They also refused to train if they didn't get their way or didn't like what they were doing. Only a few went back to training as the rest were chaptered out as soon as we could send them home. Discipline, respect and commitment seem to be the most that my DS had to work on with their platoons. Too many of the trainees had to learn those three words quickly.

My Commander's in brief had to remind them why they enlisted and what the expectations were of them and the honor to wear the uniform proudly. I warned them that I wouldn't graduate those with questionable character and lack of the Army Values. Told them the Army doesn't need Soldiers who cannot and would not be an asset to their next unit. Foremost, I did graduate enough to hopefully fill the ranks with quality and future leaders. Only regret is I didn't get to graduate my fifth cycle as I had to PCS to my next assignment. Wanted to be there to see them graduate. Basically the incoming CDR did the same as I did when I first started out and took over the AIT weeks and graduated the cycle I started. There are more things that need to be addressed which would take days to type up. For now that is all.

I am just going to read the responses and try to learn what the current Service members have to say on this one,mainly because I was in so long ago none of my observations would be relevant,so far they have been very informative ,great post CW2 Ryan Sweesy.

I don't know. Is there something about it that is currently outdated that could be removed and replaced? When I went through BCT, we did the close combat training, we trained on the weapon systems currently in use. We did the field ops, the night ops. We interrogated detainees. We stopped and frisked potential insurgents while also engaging in cultural sensitivity. Everything that I can remember doing is something that we would possibly use in the field.

I am all for updating the training to ensure that we are always ready for the fight at hand. If there is one thing I do wish is if BCT was longer, but that's probably because I'm a POG and I had a hell of a good time during BCT.

CW2 (Join to see) Chief, not to talk down on you for your post...But this question comes up often, and its never a bad question and about the same result each time.
Yes, BCT and AIT could be better, longer, more involved, cut some, add more. Yes it is "behind" what we need in the field..unfortunately there is no rapid prototyping system for Good ideas and needs of the combatant commander to TRADOC approved POI and trained DS system yet It takes time, LOTS of time to take a good idea or need and get it to the BCT level...
And then there is the very real group of civilians that run the military.....what they want counts, like it or not...and so what a CDR on the ground in Afghanistan wishes his PFC team member already was trained on/for/with conflicts whit the priorities of our leadership.

It was said well many years ago...

http://www.hackworth.com/article04032002c.html