Posted on May 24, 2014
Do you believe the Bill of Rights is outdated and should be either dropped in its entirety or at least rewritten?
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My Goddaughter seems to be very representative of many people in her generation in believing that the Second Amendment is totally outdated and needs to be eliminated. As with many on the left, she feels that no individual has any need for a handgun.
Additionally, do we really need the First Amendment since one of its previsions deals with religion and seems to discriminate against atheists and agnostics?
So, how many down votes will I get for even posting a controversial question like this?
Additionally, do we really need the First Amendment since one of its previsions deals with religion and seems to discriminate against atheists and agnostics?
So, how many down votes will I get for even posting a controversial question like this?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 241
Well first off, The first amendment, especially any bit about religion, should remain. As far as I can tell, this would protect atheists and agnostics just as much as it would protect catholics, buddhists, muslims, etc.
The second amendment is a bit more difficult, but I see no reason not to keep it as is. I am generally an anti-gun individual, but I can see the need someone would have for a shotgun, even a handgun for self defence. I'm personally fine with limiting the types of weapons someone can have for civilian use (when was an semi-automatic rifle ever necessary?).
The second amendment is a bit more difficult, but I see no reason not to keep it as is. I am generally an anti-gun individual, but I can see the need someone would have for a shotgun, even a handgun for self defence. I'm personally fine with limiting the types of weapons someone can have for civilian use (when was an semi-automatic rifle ever necessary?).
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CMDCM Gene Treants
Petty Officer Bryson, I can respect your views even though I do not agree with all of them. As a hunter, I see no reason for a semi-automatic rifle. As a citizen, I see no need to restrict any weapons in any way.
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No, it doesn't need to be dropped. The BoR gives me the right to have a handgun even if your daughter (respectfully) doesn't think I need it. It's a free country and I can live freely. People that've never been attacked or lived in fear are always against gun ownership. What we need is responsible gun ownership, not restrictions on gun ownership.
The fact is that the 4 minutes it takes police to respond to my house is enough time for my entire family to be slaughtered. It may sound like hyperbole, but only to someone that's never been victimized.
tl;dr: I can own a gun simply because i want one without regard for how anyone else feels about it.
The fact is that the 4 minutes it takes police to respond to my house is enough time for my entire family to be slaughtered. It may sound like hyperbole, but only to someone that's never been victimized.
tl;dr: I can own a gun simply because i want one without regard for how anyone else feels about it.
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CMDCM Gene Treants
Fully agree SGT E. NO Restrictions, just like the 2nd says. We already have too many restrictions imposed by the government as it is on ownership as a result of the Brady Bill and the USA PATRIOT ACT. It is time to challenge and remove them.
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If we can do away with the first ten Amendments, what's to stop us from doing away with the Thirteenth? Plenty of people would love to see me and those who look like me back in chains.
Not going to happen. Want to come to my home and try to take away my thirteenth amendment rights? Better be prepared for me to use my second amendment rights.
Not going to happen. Want to come to my home and try to take away my thirteenth amendment rights? Better be prepared for me to use my second amendment rights.
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CMDCM Gene Treants
WO W. I hope and believe most of America would be right there with you as far as overturning the 13th and that is why we have the 2nd. I do not believe we ever needed the 13th and an sorry we had to enact it, but since we did it Damn well never be questioned!
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CMDCM Gene Treants
Chaplain Brady, I agree and see no possibility for a convention since so many of us believe the BoR is in jeopardy if there ever is one.
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SFC Ralph E Kelley
Technically it takes a 'Constitutional Convention' to rewrite the whole Constitution. To add an Amendment takes Congress. To remove an Amendment (the 21st) it took a 'States Convention', which has happened only once.
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No. It was controversial when originally written because opponents feared that it would be too limiting (or leave out anything unwritten). However, despite our ongoing controversies over the exact meaning of Amendments including the First (the broadest) and the Second (probably the narrowest), I believe that the Bill of Rights has stood the test of time. It is imperfect, but I cannot imagine a better alternative ever being enacted, especially in our present toxic political environment.
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CMDCM Gene Treants
The 10th is like Article 132 of the UCMJ it covers anything not covered by the other 9. The Founders wrote this one in case they forgot anything and left everything else to the States or to the People. Wow, Imagine that, leaving rights (and responsibilities to the people). I have to wonder how many of our current politicians ever read the 10th including the current and former Speakers.
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Cpl Christopher Allen-Shinn
Very well, Master Chief, I stand corrected: Amendment X is the broadest, but Amendment I may remain the most complex. Unfortunately, many Americans don't study or comprehend the Constitution, but of course they still have opinions on the subject that the political class is happy to exploit!
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This is a great question, and when you think about it the Bill of Rights was way ahead of its time when it came to establishing basic rights of citizens. Granted it took years for them to be interpreted to be inclusive of all people, but it also shows that our laws do change with the times just not as fast as we would like them to. The vagueness of our constitution and bill of rights is what allows us to grow as a country but at the same time they keep us in check by reminding us what our rights are at the most basic level. Instead of scrapping what made this country great, we need to streamline the political and judicial processes. Right now the Supreme Court is hearing fewer and fewer cases every year, we need to make our public servants work as hard as we do, and work all year round like us. But I guess that's a discussion for another day.
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CMDCM Gene Treants
Since we have a Commander In CHief who spends more time on Vacation than in office, he seems to have set the standard for all Federal (non DOD) Employees. With that as an example, how can we expect others in the Fed to work hard?
I do agree with your comments the BoR.
I do agree with your comments the BoR.
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SGT Wayne Woodward
Read his comments again and read between the lines. He has no idea of what he speaks of. He just write what they taught him in high school. Stand down private, you are too confused!
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WO1 (Join to see)
SGT Woodward, I'm not sure what is wrong with my statement. It is a little basic but if you would like me to go more in depth I can and provide some examples. I have studied constitutional law in college so I hope I hope I know a little more then they "taught me in high school."
I would love a good debate, just please let me know what you disagree with. But please don't just shoot down my statements just because I'm a PFC and assume I have no higher education.
I would love a good debate, just please let me know what you disagree with. But please don't just shoot down my statements just because I'm a PFC and assume I have no higher education.
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Well we do not pass freedom along in our DNA to our children. It needs to be taught to them just like any other thing that parents should teach them to be good citizens.
First I believe that the BOR does not give you a damn thing! It tells the established government what our rights already were. The freedoms of speech, the right to own a firearm, the right to own property already existed prior to the creation of the USC. I believe you receive your rights by virtue of your humanity! Governments derive ALL their authority and power from WE the people. WE the people have the right and damn responsibility to replace a government that no longer serves it's purpose. We replace the government by voting out the bad actors.
Now as for the granddaughter sir, I would tell her this " When you are born in the USA you have received the greatest gifts ever given to a human being. You were born free. Free to choose you course in life, your friends. You may speak your mind, defend yourself when you need to. Hell you can marry who you want. This gift of freedom you have cost you nothing in the beginning. You must maintain it though like a garden you love by being active in the preservation of it. Part of the freedom you enjoy is the right to bear arms. This right, like all rights was not given to you, it is yours by virtue of your humanity. It may be taken from you though should you use it to harm innocent people".
I would then show her a few movies like, Saving Private Ryan, Patton or Schindlers List. Explain to her that we exist today because of so many who perished long ago fighting for the freedom of those yet unborn. A lot of them as we know were barely over twenty years of age when they died. I shutter to think of where we would be if the BOR never was!
First I believe that the BOR does not give you a damn thing! It tells the established government what our rights already were. The freedoms of speech, the right to own a firearm, the right to own property already existed prior to the creation of the USC. I believe you receive your rights by virtue of your humanity! Governments derive ALL their authority and power from WE the people. WE the people have the right and damn responsibility to replace a government that no longer serves it's purpose. We replace the government by voting out the bad actors.
Now as for the granddaughter sir, I would tell her this " When you are born in the USA you have received the greatest gifts ever given to a human being. You were born free. Free to choose you course in life, your friends. You may speak your mind, defend yourself when you need to. Hell you can marry who you want. This gift of freedom you have cost you nothing in the beginning. You must maintain it though like a garden you love by being active in the preservation of it. Part of the freedom you enjoy is the right to bear arms. This right, like all rights was not given to you, it is yours by virtue of your humanity. It may be taken from you though should you use it to harm innocent people".
I would then show her a few movies like, Saving Private Ryan, Patton or Schindlers List. Explain to her that we exist today because of so many who perished long ago fighting for the freedom of those yet unborn. A lot of them as we know were barely over twenty years of age when they died. I shutter to think of where we would be if the BOR never was!
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The bill of rights is the foundation for our country and is what our forefathers believed in so in return being an American you should have no problem with the bill of rights. If you have a problem go find a better country to live in and be free.
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CMDCM Gene Treants
PO1 Cleve Ikaika Waiwaiole this is exactly what it was spilled for shipmate. Freedom to Express our briefs and even disagree with our leaders and each other.
(BTW Shipmate turn your picture around - your ribbons and medals are bassackwards. I know you will be looking away.)
(BTW Shipmate turn your picture around - your ribbons and medals are bassackwards. I know you will be looking away.)
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PO1 Cleve Ikaika Waiwaiole
Hmm I will try to find something to flip it over. However I have no clue what program does this. I'll search it now! Thanks master chief!
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If you don't like the Bill of Rights the way it is, there are plenty of other countries that do not have them. Move there. That about sums up my feelings on the issue.
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SPC (Join to see)
Yes and why do you think there was such a push by the anti-Federalists for those amendments? Could it be to ensure that the same thing that happened in England, wouldn't happen here. Everyone thinks that the Founding Fathers agreed on everything, in fact they often disagreed. That really has no bearing on the validity of the Bill of Rights being important or not.
Those rights did exist, albeit in different forms, before 300 years ago. However the whole premise of that last paragraph is wrong. Just because a government doesn't grant you a "right" doesn't mean it doesn't exist, it means you live under an oppressive regime. So the Afghani girls that lived under the Taliban rule didn't have the right to get an education? They did, that right was being kept from them by oppressors. That's the whole basis of the Bill of Rights, to ensure an oppressive government couldn't take them from us, because they were so important to the liberty of the this new country and for generations to come.
Those rights did exist, albeit in different forms, before 300 years ago. However the whole premise of that last paragraph is wrong. Just because a government doesn't grant you a "right" doesn't mean it doesn't exist, it means you live under an oppressive regime. So the Afghani girls that lived under the Taliban rule didn't have the right to get an education? They did, that right was being kept from them by oppressors. That's the whole basis of the Bill of Rights, to ensure an oppressive government couldn't take them from us, because they were so important to the liberty of the this new country and for generations to come.
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SGT (Join to see)
So if I don't like them, I move where exactly? The moon. That's the point. You are either given them, and thereby, can move elsewhere, OR you are not given them and as such can move nowhere.
You're saying you aren't given them AND move out if you don't like them. That literally is not possible.
You're saying you aren't given them AND move out if you don't like them. That literally is not possible.
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SPC (Join to see)
You can literally move anywhere in the world. Again, that's my opinion. I've tired of people trying to take away personal liberties. Guns, speech, etc. They're under constant attack and no one seems to care. Of course if someone suggested that women should no longer vote, the media would be a blaze with the fallout.
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SGT (Join to see)
Most people, even most gun control supporters, aren't trying to take anyone's guns in its entirety. Are there extremes? Yes. But they don't define most people. Just because I think that gun control isn't completely bad doesn't mean I'm taking your liberties. If we kicked out everyone who could have that argument as a basis, we'd no longer be a country because no one would be left. I shouldn't be able to use the first amendment to justify sacrificing babies is part of my religious rituals, because it has a limit. Or a control. The 2nd Amendment is no different. No one, besides the extremes like the girl in the OP post, wants to take the right away, they want a better defined set of controls.
I'm sure you'll still have an issue with that statement, but it doesn't change the facts that establishing boundaries isn't a bad thing. No one needs to leave for trying to do that. And the extremes? Guess what, they'll never gain enough support to change it so they're not doing anything important anyway. Let em think what they want.
I'm sure you'll still have an issue with that statement, but it doesn't change the facts that establishing boundaries isn't a bad thing. No one needs to leave for trying to do that. And the extremes? Guess what, they'll never gain enough support to change it so they're not doing anything important anyway. Let em think what they want.
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