Posted on May 24, 2014
Do you believe the Bill of Rights is outdated and should be either dropped in its entirety or at least rewritten?
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My Goddaughter seems to be very representative of many people in her generation in believing that the Second Amendment is totally outdated and needs to be eliminated. As with many on the left, she feels that no individual has any need for a handgun.
Additionally, do we really need the First Amendment since one of its previsions deals with religion and seems to discriminate against atheists and agnostics?
So, how many down votes will I get for even posting a controversial question like this?
Additionally, do we really need the First Amendment since one of its previsions deals with religion and seems to discriminate against atheists and agnostics?
So, how many down votes will I get for even posting a controversial question like this?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 241
I would rather have it and not need it over needing it and not have it. While honest people will follow the rule of law, the criminal element will try to find ways to circumvent laws for personal gain.
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LTC John Wilson
To be fair, LT Miller and MSgt Weston... you are BOTH appallingly ignorant regarding the intend purpose, nature, and origin of a document you have sworn a solemn oath to support and defend...without mental reservation of purpose of evasion.
The Bill of Rights is an affirmation by the Republic of certain Natural Rights which already exist by nature of our existence...rights enjoyed by ALL MEN (i.e. human beings) by virtue of our Creator (as discussed in the Unanimous Declaration of the United States adopted 4 July 1776).
If you feel so strongly regarding your very mistaken notion that you are mere mercenaries serving a privileged elite (as your expressed opinions presuppose), then perhaps you -- LT Miller -- should resign your commission, and MSgt Weston, you should depart the service as soon as your enlistment expires.
The Bill of Rights is an affirmation by the Republic of certain Natural Rights which already exist by nature of our existence...rights enjoyed by ALL MEN (i.e. human beings) by virtue of our Creator (as discussed in the Unanimous Declaration of the United States adopted 4 July 1776).
If you feel so strongly regarding your very mistaken notion that you are mere mercenaries serving a privileged elite (as your expressed opinions presuppose), then perhaps you -- LT Miller -- should resign your commission, and MSgt Weston, you should depart the service as soon as your enlistment expires.
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LTC John Wilson
As for your education concerning the Constitution, Lieutenant, you should be aware that the roots of your ignorance are grounded in a series of historical text books written around the turn of the 20th century by a handful of "historians" who remade US history into a complete work of fiction which has since echoed the hallowed halls of academia without question despite the fact that these "historians" provided only a few cherry-picked citations of original source documentation to support such wild claims as "the founders were all a bunch of Diests, that our origins were purely based on commercial considerations (taxation without representation), et al.
My American History professor lied to me, too, but I actually bothered to research the subject myself...using unfiltered, original source documentation.
My American History professor lied to me, too, but I actually bothered to research the subject myself...using unfiltered, original source documentation.
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MSgt Rob Weston
Maj, first of all the need to state the LT should resign or I should depart the service was totally out of line and very unprofessional. Secondly, I am retired. Do I understand the intent of the Bill of Rights and the Constitution I have swore to uphold a defend, your damned right. Yes it is a document that state each person natural rights and rights for fair representation, et al. These opinions of our are just that opinions. There was no reason for your blatant disrespect or perceived notion since that we are in anyway against the forefathers of our great nation. If you believe that we are in error of our opinion, I suggest you state where we are a little off versus the immediate assault you stated. I am open for discussions and learning truth, if you know something or learned something how about sharing without insult.
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LTC John Wilson
MSgt (Ret) Weston... In as much as your oath was solemn and you may be subject to recall to uphold it (by virtue of your retirement pay), then it is incumbent upon you to understand your errors. However, -- aside from my other postings in this thread which should prove sufficient to articulate your (and the good gentleman's) errors concerning the subject -- it is not incumbent upon me to explain these errors in further detail (unless of course you are prepared to send me your tuition check for the education you would receive...and cherish).
Rather, I would encourage you to research for yourselves -- in much the same way that I have done. Otherwise, you should be satisfied that I bothered to point out the fraudulent source of your errors.
Contrary to your opinion, I have not issued a single, unprofessional word nor insult towards either of you. I have very respectfully rebuked both of you as honorable peers, and have assigned you with the same capacity of intellectual, rational thought that I possess (thus the use term ignorance as opposed to stupidity). I have even laid the blame for your error largely upon those who presume themselves your superiors by hiding the Truth from you. Indeed, I have appealed to your individual senses of honor to either redact your oaths which -- as evidenced by your own admissions -- you each took with at least some degree mental reservation, or provide yourselves the education necessary withdraw your reservations. If you regard that as an insult, MSgt (Ret), then perhaps I may have been too hasty in my assessment?
Finally, MSgt (Ret) Weston, I appreciate your very candid feedback, which indicates to me that you are the very kind of NCO I value working with most of all... Thank you for your service.
Rather, I would encourage you to research for yourselves -- in much the same way that I have done. Otherwise, you should be satisfied that I bothered to point out the fraudulent source of your errors.
Contrary to your opinion, I have not issued a single, unprofessional word nor insult towards either of you. I have very respectfully rebuked both of you as honorable peers, and have assigned you with the same capacity of intellectual, rational thought that I possess (thus the use term ignorance as opposed to stupidity). I have even laid the blame for your error largely upon those who presume themselves your superiors by hiding the Truth from you. Indeed, I have appealed to your individual senses of honor to either redact your oaths which -- as evidenced by your own admissions -- you each took with at least some degree mental reservation, or provide yourselves the education necessary withdraw your reservations. If you regard that as an insult, MSgt (Ret), then perhaps I may have been too hasty in my assessment?
Finally, MSgt (Ret) Weston, I appreciate your very candid feedback, which indicates to me that you are the very kind of NCO I value working with most of all... Thank you for your service.
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No down vote. It's intriguing. But we were founded on these rights. They can be and have been amended. So, that's where we the people should go next...
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LTC John Wilson
TSgt Jones, the first ten amendments to the Constitution have not yet been amended. Even if they were amended -- or even repealed -- that would NOT change the underlying fact that these first ten amendments are an acknowledgement of EXISTING Natural Rights possessed by all humans -- the right to Life (and the means to defend it), Liberty (to say and do what one OUGHT to do as a sovereign, self-governing person), and the pursuit of happiness (regardless of its form or fashion -- everything from one's right to worship their Creator, associate with those whom they chose to associate with, and to accumulate, maintain, and dispose of personal wealth and property by the sweat of one's personal labors and risked investment).
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LTC John Wilson
There is a reason Thomas Jefferson wrote the word "unalienable" when referring to these rights. Merely removing those expressed in the Constitution does not automatically make them "alienable."
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I am pro second amendment. I think that right should not be touched or updated in any way. I think a history lesson should be taught about how we earned to have that right. As Americans we should have the right to be armed and have the right to carry for self defense purposes. Look at what's going on around the world... for example women are being raped by Islamic extremist in denmark. I rather have my sisters be armed and ready for the unexpected. Our predecessors fought for us to have these rights and these rights should be left alone.
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CMDCM Gene Treants
SPC Roy Baez-Gordils I was and still am totally opposed to any member of the military, Active, Retired, or Veteran, having to take a Concealed Carry Class in order to get a PERMIT to carry concealed. The entire idea goes against the 2nd as far as I am concerned and is just another way to get my name in a data base. Having said that, I'm Finally biting the bullet and taking the damn class. BTW in NC I can open carry without a permit - it is just a hastle.
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I believe that it was written in a time when it was very much needed and well written but times have changed drastically since then and most of it is meaningless to almost all of the government today because it interferes with them taking over this country. Do I feel we need to rewrite it ?yes and no. yes because times have changed, no because the current government would only abuse their authority in rewriting it and America would no longer be home of the free.
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LTC John Wilson
SGT Glenn, the technology may have changed, but the nature and rights of the individual remain unalienable.
The principles contained within the Constitution are a reflection of unchangeable, immutable, and self-evident Natural Laws. Therefore, the principles contained within the Constitution remain timeless.
Much of the trouble we have today with the bloated, over-extended Federal bureaucracy can be traced to amendments added to the Constitution which undermined the delegative authority of the States OVER the Federal government (if you doubt which level of government has precedence over the other, I direct your attention to the Tenth Amendment and ask you who delegates to whom: Does the superior delegate authority to the subordinate or does that work the other way around?
In as much as we have seen the dire, abusive consequences of making certain changes to the Constitution which undermined the authority of the States over the Federal Government (most notably the 17th Amendment which removed the power of State Legislators to pick Senators to protect State Government interests) -- for the sake of "modernizing" the Constitution -- one must contemplate the inevitable catastrophe which would overtake us were we to allow changes which undermine individual authority over the Federal government.
The principles contained within the Constitution are a reflection of unchangeable, immutable, and self-evident Natural Laws. Therefore, the principles contained within the Constitution remain timeless.
Much of the trouble we have today with the bloated, over-extended Federal bureaucracy can be traced to amendments added to the Constitution which undermined the delegative authority of the States OVER the Federal government (if you doubt which level of government has precedence over the other, I direct your attention to the Tenth Amendment and ask you who delegates to whom: Does the superior delegate authority to the subordinate or does that work the other way around?
In as much as we have seen the dire, abusive consequences of making certain changes to the Constitution which undermined the authority of the States over the Federal Government (most notably the 17th Amendment which removed the power of State Legislators to pick Senators to protect State Government interests) -- for the sake of "modernizing" the Constitution -- one must contemplate the inevitable catastrophe which would overtake us were we to allow changes which undermine individual authority over the Federal government.
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LTC John Wilson
The troubles we have today did not result from a 200-plus year old charter; rather our troubles are a result of a conscious and collective deviation from the spirit and letter of that charter.
Save the restoration of certain foundational principles amended out of the Constitution, We do not require a change to our charter. Indeed, we need to ADHERE to it -- in the original letter and spirit that the Framers intended.
Save the restoration of certain foundational principles amended out of the Constitution, We do not require a change to our charter. Indeed, we need to ADHERE to it -- in the original letter and spirit that the Framers intended.
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Every country in history which turned from it's founding principles fell shortly after. Is that what we desire? Is our country the true problem in the world? Shall we turn from our once common values in the constitution and bill of rights to avoid political offense? Are not most who believe this unwilling to serve and protect our nation?
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CMDCM Gene Treants
MSG Daniel Talley, I agree. No. No. No. And finally, Yes! When my Goddaughter posed her question Initially, I thought it was a very good point and needed to be brought to RP for discussion and debate. I am very heartened by the response by the response by the members of this forum. Debate has been lively with the majority in total support of the BOR and a very small percent expressing a very articulate counterpoint.
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Tell your goddaughter "126 MILLION" When she asks what "126 MILLION" means, explain to her that it represents 126 MILLION UNARMED citizens murdered by their own governments in the 20th century.
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CMDCM Gene Treants
Connecticut may soon have thousands of Felons since they have passed a law in April 2013 that outlaws any unregistered "assault weapon or magazine that holds more than 10 rounds." People had until December 31, 2013 to register or become felons.
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Wow, no. Just no. Should we give the government authority to dictate your speech, beliefs, and very lives? No, I don't think so. I whole heartedly reject the very premise of this question. 1A does not discriminate, that's the entire point! 2A isn't 'outdated' threats of government over reach are just as valid today as 240 years ago (I'd say more so). And if she wants cops to be able to walk into her home for no reason and go through her stuff, or be
punished for not incriminating herself, then by all means she can move to Cuba, or Iran, or North Korea. See how she likes it there.
punished for not incriminating herself, then by all means she can move to Cuba, or Iran, or North Korea. See how she likes it there.
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CMDCM Gene Treants
Remember that the best part of the BOR is the ability to question our government, including the Constitution and all of its Amendments. In fact, it is even encouraged.
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SPC Christopher Morehouse
Sure, but what you are in effect doing is questioning your right to question your rights. Now that's just silly.
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the reason for the bill of rights was to show that we had right. by dropping the 1st or 2nd amendment we are giving up our rights. I dont know about you but I fight for every right we have, many have died to defend those rights. Just dropping them would be like pissing on all that have died for them.
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CMDCM Gene Treants
The founders made sure that we had these rights through the BOR. We continue to ensure they are enforced; I, state your name, do solemnly swear or affirm that ...
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No it should be followed. However people fail to realize these are limits on what the Fed gov can do to you, like the 1st amendment congress shall make no law...right there CONGRESS, your state however, can do what ever it pleases. Most state's constitutions mirror the federal constitution so that is were the confusion starts. Like all these states have laws banning gay marriage that were voted on by the people of those states, only to get struck down by a fed judge, the fed courts should never see those cases. this is the way its suppose to work, if you don't like the way the laws are in your state , leave , go to one you do like , or be involved with changing your state's laws. Think about it , it would be far easier to get a law changed in your state vs the federal government.
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CMDCM Gene Treants
CW2 (Join to see) i could not agree more Sir. It is the States Rights V Fed Government argument all over again. Article 10 is very clear about the issue, yet SCOTUS seems to not understand this at all. My rights in NC are no the same as your rights in AR in all respects.
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LTC John Wilson
The Bill of Rights is a timeless recognition of unalienable rights that have existed since creation. They are a reflection of the Laws of Nature and Nature's God. These rights and the Law they are based upon exist apart from the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Merely repealing them or attempting to diluting them through executive orders, legislation, and/or judicial decisions cannot change the unchangeable, immutable Truth. Anyone who proposes to tamper with them is effectively guilty of sedition and mutiny.
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What's next after changing or getting rid of the Bill of Rights, rewriting the Constitution! The Constitution and the Bill of Rights are what made this the greatest Country in the world. We need to go back read and understand the Constitution and the Bill of Rights than wholeheartedly support it. The whinny assed, politically correct,liberals have a right to voice their opinions, but we need to stop trying to change what made us great to just please a few. Be careful what you wish for or you just might get it!!!!!!!!!!!!
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CMDCM Gene Treants
The BOR is under constant attack from all directions and needs to be defended. there is chatter every few years to have a Constitutional Convention, yet it never seems to happen since the document stands the test of time so well.
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