Posted on May 24, 2014
Do you believe the Bill of Rights is outdated and should be either dropped in its entirety or at least rewritten?
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My Goddaughter seems to be very representative of many people in her generation in believing that the Second Amendment is totally outdated and needs to be eliminated. As with many on the left, she feels that no individual has any need for a handgun.
Additionally, do we really need the First Amendment since one of its previsions deals with religion and seems to discriminate against atheists and agnostics?
So, how many down votes will I get for even posting a controversial question like this?
Additionally, do we really need the First Amendment since one of its previsions deals with religion and seems to discriminate against atheists and agnostics?
So, how many down votes will I get for even posting a controversial question like this?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 241
One of the things that bothers me is that liberal idiots think they can spew whatever garbage they can think of out of there mouths. They say oh it's protected under the first amendment. But they pretty much completely wrong, the founding fathers put it in there so you can publicly speak out against an oppressive government. It's annoying how now you speak out against what the idiots in Washington are doing and somehow now you have to worry about being labeled a domestic terrorist. These idiotic people saying the second amendment is out dated are foolish. If they take away that like they have pretty much taken away your first amendment rights, well then it's just game over and the current administration is just going to run over everyone. 1984, Animal Farm and Fahrenheit 451 should be required reading for kids. People say the zombie apocalypse is just made up but they would be wrong, it's happening right now. All these obama voters are just mindless zombies. Instead of running around screaming brains there running around screaming free. They want someone else to take care of them and have absolutely ZERO responsibility for there actions. It still kills me that anyone in the military can have actually voted for that loser or even worse still wear pro obama shirts around base. The man has ZERO respect for the military. Which brings up another thing, they say while in you serve in the military you can't speak badly of the president or the government. Well where in the hell in the first amendment does it say that when you join the military you give up your first amendment right. It does not say that anywhere, it's just a sad sign of how much we have let the government take away from us. Sadly it is only going to get worse before it gets better and that's if it actually ever gets better. I hope it does get better though, I fear for what kind of United States my son and the baby on the way might have to live in. I do what I can to make this world a better place but sometimes it doesn't even seem like I'm making a dent.
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Cpl Westin Sandberg
LCpl, you are absolutely right when it comes to the commander in chief, what you are forgetting is that in time of war he is your highest superior officer, and you have to be respectful, and follow all lawful orders, I think the real question you are trying to get at is this "At what point does Mr Obama stop being the commander and chief, and start becoming a domestic enemy to the constitution, which some might argue he already has, grossly, even, and when he becomes that domestic enemy of the constitution, who decides that? Him? Seems like a conflict of interest... unless of course our enlistment oath is one of perception.... in which case here is a hypothetical question for everyone... "If hypothetically, there was a president, during a time of war, attempting to abolish the rights of the people, and refuses to step down from his office, what has priority in our oath? To defend the constitution or the president? In addition, if, hypothetically, it came to violence, how would a military tribunal go about establishing whether or not a hypothetical assassination would be treason, murder, or honorably upholding one's oath?" Now there is something to ponder....
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MCPO Treants,
I heard some Soldiers talk about the "old piece of paper that is outdated and useless." This our school system at work not realizing that the thing that makes this nation great is how it was founded. the founding fathers realized that the document would need to be altered and that is why additional admentments can be made with a vast majority vote from both the house and senate.
For the second part I hope your Goddaughter never needs a gun or at least someone is there to protect her the day she does. We have the highest per captia gun ownership of any nation in the world. We also have one of the lowest homicides by handgun in the world. The second admentment was meant to give people the right to own a hunting rifle or a properly registered pistol. It was made so that the people would have the ability to stand up against a corrupt or unjust government. Look at every mass genocide in history and it starts with one act....taking away peoples weapons "for their safety."
I heard some Soldiers talk about the "old piece of paper that is outdated and useless." This our school system at work not realizing that the thing that makes this nation great is how it was founded. the founding fathers realized that the document would need to be altered and that is why additional admentments can be made with a vast majority vote from both the house and senate.
For the second part I hope your Goddaughter never needs a gun or at least someone is there to protect her the day she does. We have the highest per captia gun ownership of any nation in the world. We also have one of the lowest homicides by handgun in the world. The second admentment was meant to give people the right to own a hunting rifle or a properly registered pistol. It was made so that the people would have the ability to stand up against a corrupt or unjust government. Look at every mass genocide in history and it starts with one act....taking away peoples weapons "for their safety."
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CMDCM Gene Treants
So you are saying the Hitler did not have the good of the Jews, Homosexuals, etc. at heart when he took away their ability to defend themselves and their neighbors? That maybe some of our own politicians may be thinking of their own skins and not ours when they attempt to deprive us of the right to bear arms?
I have to agree with you Major. Yes Sir I really do.
I have to agree with you Major. Yes Sir I really do.
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SSgt Paul L.
I don't think guns are inherently the problem. There are more gun deaths in our nation per capita than other comparable first world countries. But I don't attribute that to guns. I attribute it to Americans. America has a killing problem. I often wonder what that is because it's not restricted to poor, minority, drug and gang communities. It is increasingly becoming a white middle class phenomenon.
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Master Chief, one of the things that bother me about the current thought of the first and second amendments is that they are thought to be outdated and irrelevant. That couldn't be farther from the truth. The first amendment provides for freedom of speech and practice of religion. It does NOT say that you have the right not to be offended. I feel that when we give up the right to speak our minds because it offends someone, we give up free speech.
The second amendment has been covered well here, and I have only to say that as a gun owner I do not look forward to what would happen if the government ever decided that it was, from that point on, illegal to possess or sell any form of firearm. That would be the end of what we all enjoy as freedom.
The second amendment has been covered well here, and I have only to say that as a gun owner I do not look forward to what would happen if the government ever decided that it was, from that point on, illegal to possess or sell any form of firearm. That would be the end of what we all enjoy as freedom.
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CMDCM Gene Treants
Petty Officer Lloyd, as you can see from the down votes at the beginning, some people are offended just by this topic. I am not happy about it, but actually expected to see it. Freedom of speech, means you risk offending people.
Your point of the 2nd is accurate, but IF the government ever made it ILLEGAL to actually Possess any more forms of firearms than they already do, the end of our current government might be more imminent.
Your point of the 2nd is accurate, but IF the government ever made it ILLEGAL to actually Possess any more forms of firearms than they already do, the end of our current government might be more imminent.
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Master Chief...I would not expect a lot of down votes. Understand that some feel the Constitution is outdated...but there should be some pride in looking around the world and realizing ours is one of the oldest founding documents out there and has been a model for many countries. The Bill of Rights is an intregal part of our nation's history. These are basically just the first 10 ammendments to the Constitution, an actually looked at as a way to "limit" the central (federal) government. As such, I say leave it as is, however fully understand, that if the will of the people of thi country is to change it, they have the ability to ammend the document...because our founders gave us that flexibilty.
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CMDCM Gene Treants
Colonel I really did not expect a lot of down votes either since the 1st Amendment gives us the Right of Free Speech, however some people do tend to believe in limiting any dissension.
Yes, I really agree it is a way to limit the central government. Hopefully the people will always realize just how powerful the BoR really is and should always be.
Yes, I really agree it is a way to limit the central government. Hopefully the people will always realize just how powerful the BoR really is and should always be.
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Like any 'system' if one part is removed remainder will be less effective. On the first ten Amendments (the initial Bill of Rights) alone here is how I, a common citizen, see their interaction.
If the 1st Amendment were removed then all those that currently against the 2nd Amendment as it stands would be unable to protest ANY issue without censorship.
The linchpin of the Bill of Rights is the 2nd Amendment - remove it and the US Constitution with the remaining Amendments is at risk. To remove the 2nd Amendment or to change the intent is to remove the ability of citizens to enforce the law against tyranny.
Without the 3rd Amendment the government could barrack soldiers at any time in your home and use you food, cars and indeed - your family without your consent, in de'facto holding your family as ransom.
The 4th, if it were removed would mean that if anyone disliked you (or your politics) you could be rousted at any time w/o recourse to warrant or intervention of court or legal defense. The accusation would be the charge and sentence in one statement.
Under the 5th I cannot incriminate myself under any circumstances up to and including torture.
With the 6th I have a right to a speedy PUBLIC trial, that includes no secret charges with my accuser (be they public official or private individual) in the public eye where I along with witnesses of both sides will face the consequences of any failure to be less than truthful in their testimony.
In cases where the 7th, where civil law applies, I have a right to trial by my peers – by such we DO NOT mean rich people by rich people, merchants by merchants, poor people by poor people – but by equal citizens under the law. All citizens must be tried alike, not because you can afford better counsel.
My 8th (and yours) keeps me from having to ‘make a loan’ for a simple traffic ticket or to allow others or the government to sell me into bondage to pay off any fine levied.
The 9th Amendment prevents me form disenfranchising citizens. Even when in the 1920s, when the Oklahoma ‘reclassified’ those with only 1/32nd Indian blood as being ‘Indians’, they could not remove their right to vote in any election. It prevents the denial of equal rights to all citizens.
Lastly the 10th Amendment limits the power of government to those delegated by the Constitution. This prevents a dictatorship by the President, Congress, by a ‘tribunal’, any unelected/elected or non-republic/republic form of government.
If the 1st Amendment were removed then all those that currently against the 2nd Amendment as it stands would be unable to protest ANY issue without censorship.
The linchpin of the Bill of Rights is the 2nd Amendment - remove it and the US Constitution with the remaining Amendments is at risk. To remove the 2nd Amendment or to change the intent is to remove the ability of citizens to enforce the law against tyranny.
Without the 3rd Amendment the government could barrack soldiers at any time in your home and use you food, cars and indeed - your family without your consent, in de'facto holding your family as ransom.
The 4th, if it were removed would mean that if anyone disliked you (or your politics) you could be rousted at any time w/o recourse to warrant or intervention of court or legal defense. The accusation would be the charge and sentence in one statement.
Under the 5th I cannot incriminate myself under any circumstances up to and including torture.
With the 6th I have a right to a speedy PUBLIC trial, that includes no secret charges with my accuser (be they public official or private individual) in the public eye where I along with witnesses of both sides will face the consequences of any failure to be less than truthful in their testimony.
In cases where the 7th, where civil law applies, I have a right to trial by my peers – by such we DO NOT mean rich people by rich people, merchants by merchants, poor people by poor people – but by equal citizens under the law. All citizens must be tried alike, not because you can afford better counsel.
My 8th (and yours) keeps me from having to ‘make a loan’ for a simple traffic ticket or to allow others or the government to sell me into bondage to pay off any fine levied.
The 9th Amendment prevents me form disenfranchising citizens. Even when in the 1920s, when the Oklahoma ‘reclassified’ those with only 1/32nd Indian blood as being ‘Indians’, they could not remove their right to vote in any election. It prevents the denial of equal rights to all citizens.
Lastly the 10th Amendment limits the power of government to those delegated by the Constitution. This prevents a dictatorship by the President, Congress, by a ‘tribunal’, any unelected/elected or non-republic/republic form of government.
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CMDCM Gene Treants
I agree with most of what you say, however you are not a "common" citizen. No member of the Armed Forces is "common" since we are such a small minority. Very few Citizen Soldiers exist today.
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SFC Ralph E Kelley
Well, even as I was a soldier I considered myself as a citizen first and a soldier second. In my view there are many common citizens that have positions with police, emergency service, firefighter, not to mention city council, alter-persons, mayors, county government, civil service, post offices etc...
Even those that elect not to serve the community but simply work to raise children, be teachers, collect garbage, provide child & elderly care are common citizens.
My opinion is anyone who takes pride in self, family, and community is a good citizen. I never place myself above others even as I do not place them above. The leaders of our country are simply human, regardless of where they sit or the job they do.
If more US citizens truly thought we were equal under the Constitution - truly believed this then no one person could think they were 'more-than-equal'.
There are some whose work is more important, but only so long as they do the job for which they have chosen or have been chosen to do. Once a deviation from their duty prevails then their work is not important and they should either correct themselves or stand aside.
Even those that elect not to serve the community but simply work to raise children, be teachers, collect garbage, provide child & elderly care are common citizens.
My opinion is anyone who takes pride in self, family, and community is a good citizen. I never place myself above others even as I do not place them above. The leaders of our country are simply human, regardless of where they sit or the job they do.
If more US citizens truly thought we were equal under the Constitution - truly believed this then no one person could think they were 'more-than-equal'.
There are some whose work is more important, but only so long as they do the job for which they have chosen or have been chosen to do. Once a deviation from their duty prevails then their work is not important and they should either correct themselves or stand aside.
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This is the core of our nation and the foundation of our beliefs as a whole. If we modify and change at will the basis of our country then we as a whole are unable to maintain the identity that this country is based on.
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CMDCM Gene Treants
Which is why we must examine and debate the merits of the Bill of Rights, the Constitution, and all of the amendments from time to time.
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PFC Stephen Eric Serati
The thing about our Constitution is that there are provisions in it to allow for change. The authors knew they couldn't predict the future and that from time to time it would need to change and be amended.
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CMDCM Gene Treants
Thue also know that change should be thought out carefully and thoroughly. It should also be slow and difficult so that whims and emotions would not rule our destiny, but actual need.
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SSG Kevin McCulley
It is one of the reasons that the left decries the dysfunction of congress. That isn't a design flaw, it is a planned feature. The government is supposed to be split in this way so that the only thing that passes through are things that everyone can live with. The problem is that the left sneaks things in (like all the insanity of things in Obamacare) that the right couldn't possibly live with and instead of coming up with something more agreeable, they just say, 'well it’s the republicans fault because they won't give us everything we want." The right caved to media pressure time and time again as the republic slipped further and further away. Then came the Tea Party who pretty much used the same tactic but on right wing issues. Neither side seems to want to work together. That isn't a problem with the system of government; it is a problem with the people we put into office. I blame the left because they hyper politicize everything from what kind of butter you eat to what kind of car you drive to what of electrical bulb is in your lamp. You can't go a day without noticing some subtle form of left wing indoctrination, but you gotta watch out for us libertarians.... we want to take all the power in the country for ourselves and then use it to leave you the hell alone!
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The Bill of Rights is a absolute document that will continue to stand the test of time.
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MSG(P) Michael Warrick
I agree we must continue to defend as it has allowed this country to become what it is.. The Bill of Rights is vital to this country.
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GySgt William Hardy
One of my strongest reasons for opposing people who say they are Progressive is that, and you can look it up yourself, the Progressive want to do two things (1) Do away with the concept of separation of powers and (2) do away with the Constitution. I personally take that as an attack upon my country. The US Constitution is a living document. The vast majority of what is in the Constitution has to do with the proper running of a government, including the idea of separation of powers, and protections for our personal freedoms. Anybody who thinks otherwise is trying to undermine the the vary basic ideals of what it means to be an American. IMO
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These are tough choices. Given the choices I have to say leave it as is. In reality I think it needs some amending, in general, and a relook at both 1 & 2. 1787 was a long time ago, the world and our country has changed probably beyond the imagination of our founding fathers. There are plenty of great arguments here, but I believe that the Constitution, through amendments, is a "living" document. if everything is as it was in 1787 then I'd feel differently, but its not.
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LTC (Join to see)
SFC Hardy...The Supreme Court has upheld the Second Amendment in 2008 by striking down the Washington, DC gun ban and stating that the intent of the Second Amendment is for the individual to possess firearms...then in 2010 the Supreme Court disagreed with Chicago's gun ban stating that the 14th Amendment allows the Second Amendment to apply to the states through the incorporation doctrine
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SGT Craig Northacker
Major-you have hit the nail on the head - the Supreme Court has become suspect in some of its' recent decisions, and has allowed its' share of incongruent application to not necessarily give real guidance - or uphold the Constitution as written. (See corporations funding elections).
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Cpl Brett Wagner
Major then change it constitutionally by a vote from all the people & not by legislative mandate. I think if you read the Federalist papers you will see why they wrote the 2nd amendment & we the people have already lost. we cannot change our government that no longer serves the people. I also understand that as an active duty officer you need to be politically correct if you care about your career. correct me if I am wrong but don't officers work for the president as to where the enlisted work for congress... maybe I have it backwards.
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MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca
Cpl Wagner, we all collectively work for the officers appointed over us up to the President, our CinC. No one "works" for congress, they make the laws. I agree, I'd like to see some constitutional amendments, but in our current environment no one on Capitol Hill is willing to risk an election on supporting such a move, hence the reason we're in this mess, to the tune of the Army Song, "And the conundrum, keeps rolling along, Keep it rolling..."
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