Posted on May 24, 2014
Do you believe the Bill of Rights is outdated and should be either dropped in its entirety or at least rewritten?
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My Goddaughter seems to be very representative of many people in her generation in believing that the Second Amendment is totally outdated and needs to be eliminated. As with many on the left, she feels that no individual has any need for a handgun.
Additionally, do we really need the First Amendment since one of its previsions deals with religion and seems to discriminate against atheists and agnostics?
So, how many down votes will I get for even posting a controversial question like this?
Additionally, do we really need the First Amendment since one of its previsions deals with religion and seems to discriminate against atheists and agnostics?
So, how many down votes will I get for even posting a controversial question like this?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 241
When people tell me they don't think anyone should own a handgun or need a gun for protection I let them know that I will not use my handguns to defend them out of respect for their views. It just kind of puts things in perspective.
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CMDCM Gene Treants
If it ever comes down to a hand gun for protection, I am doing something seriously wrong. Now believe me I do won and will use a hand gun if needed, but I really believe that a shotgun in the house is a better choice, just like inside the skin of a ship.
Maximum damage to personnel and minimum damage to the structure.
I do admit is is harder to do CC with a shotgun.
Maximum damage to personnel and minimum damage to the structure.
I do admit is is harder to do CC with a shotgun.
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I'm with SSG Woods. How did we screw up so badly with this latest generation?!?! And make no mistake about it, they are what we made them!
The attitudes of this group often seem odd to us because the military tends to be a conservative and tight knit group. It also doesn't help that conversations like this make me see red right from the start; how dare these uninformed, self entitled, zero life experience little s*** heads trash something that I have pledged my life to defend!!
But then I think about the pandering political speaches I've listened to over the past three plus decades. You have a RIGHT to a free education, you have a RIGHT to a nice hourse, you have a RIGHT to a nice car, you have a RIGHT to a $300 dollar cell phone, and if, heaven forbid, something in life doesn't go your way, you have the RIGHT to sue everyone located within 100 miles of the incident for millions upon millions of dollars because nothing could ever possibly be YOUR fault!! Concepts like integrity, work ethic, and personal responsibility are sneered at by far too large a percentage of this generation.
We, and by we I mean all Americans, have made this mess and I am afraid it is going to take a profound shift in current events to change it. The unfortunate part is that these type of events tend towards the catastrophic.
But as the founding fathers, those venerable men of history that this current generation wishes to forget, so eloquently put it:
"They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson
As the old saying goes, "you get what you pay for" and, with only a small percentage of exceptions, this younger generation has PAID NOTHING for what they have. Some day in the future, they will wake up to find they have exactly what they paid for and exactly what they asked for.
The attitudes of this group often seem odd to us because the military tends to be a conservative and tight knit group. It also doesn't help that conversations like this make me see red right from the start; how dare these uninformed, self entitled, zero life experience little s*** heads trash something that I have pledged my life to defend!!
But then I think about the pandering political speaches I've listened to over the past three plus decades. You have a RIGHT to a free education, you have a RIGHT to a nice hourse, you have a RIGHT to a nice car, you have a RIGHT to a $300 dollar cell phone, and if, heaven forbid, something in life doesn't go your way, you have the RIGHT to sue everyone located within 100 miles of the incident for millions upon millions of dollars because nothing could ever possibly be YOUR fault!! Concepts like integrity, work ethic, and personal responsibility are sneered at by far too large a percentage of this generation.
We, and by we I mean all Americans, have made this mess and I am afraid it is going to take a profound shift in current events to change it. The unfortunate part is that these type of events tend towards the catastrophic.
But as the founding fathers, those venerable men of history that this current generation wishes to forget, so eloquently put it:
"They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson
As the old saying goes, "you get what you pay for" and, with only a small percentage of exceptions, this younger generation has PAID NOTHING for what they have. Some day in the future, they will wake up to find they have exactly what they paid for and exactly what they asked for.
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CMDCM Gene Treants
You forgot about the RIGHT to a free Obama Phone and a few other perks of being in the latest generation. But I agree with you Captain M. Both Franklin and Jefferson had it right.
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Cpl Brett Wagner
CPT McCormick - Very well said sir. I cannot disagree with one word you wrote. I too look back on the last 3 decades, maybe a little less, and see not one politician that deserves the loyalty and dedication of our military. Certainly not worth the countless lives they have sacrificed through military action.
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CPT Jack Durish
CPT (Join to see) has his eye on the target. As Walt Kelly said in his Pogo comic strip, "We have met the enemy and he is us".
I make no mistake about it. Our children, our schools, our nation is exactly what we made of them. We deserve the government we have.
It's easy to change our government, our schools, and our children, to mold them correctly, but we don't. Most don't vote. Those that do are either ill-informed or swayed by celebrity.
The change must begin with us. Only then can we change the US.
I make no mistake about it. Our children, our schools, our nation is exactly what we made of them. We deserve the government we have.
It's easy to change our government, our schools, and our children, to mold them correctly, but we don't. Most don't vote. Those that do are either ill-informed or swayed by celebrity.
The change must begin with us. Only then can we change the US.
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In my opinion, it should be left as is. The criminals will not just "turn in" their weapons if this is changed, so the average citizen will be left unarmed. Not to mention all the folks that hunt, that is their right as well as the way that some of them acquire their food. I do not personally own a firearm, as i have young children in my home, but at the same time i would like my right to acquire one in the future left in tact.
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CMDCM Gene Treants
Please reread the 2nd. It really has nothing to do with hunting. Most of my friends who hunt, however would never even consider turning in a weapon or using an automatic weapon for hunting; in fact most real hunters very seldom use semi-automatics.
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SPC Chicquila Cox
I am aware of that. I was just adding a bit of "color" to my opinion, because where does it stop? Where is the line drawn? You stated that your God-daughter said that she feels there are no need for hand guns, correct? So if they take the hand guns used for protection, what's next? The hunting rifles. I know enough about hunting as my dad and uncles do quite a bit of it. I was making a generalized satement, more or less. Hitler convinced an entire country to register their weapons, and as good citizens they did exactly that. Within a few months those same registered weapons were taken from them by the same man that just prior had extended promises that he did not fulfill. I'm just questioning, where does it stop? Either way, the criminals will definitely not bow to any laws as they do not even now. Sorry if I am a bit all over the place with this response as i just came in from 2 science classes and have the atmosphere and environment fresh on my brain lol.
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CMDCM Gene Treants
As a "Good German" I also find it hard to go against the government in any way. I learned these lessons well in grade school in Milwaukee, BUT have studied history thoroughly and know better than to trust ANY politician. The 2nd makes sure that politicians have to beware of me and others like me who know and expect our government to be less than honest in all things. I am watching and aware of just what they do and how much they try to get away with.
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The Bill of Rights is sacred to our way of life and messing with it would be a political land grab.
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SMSgt Robert Dahl
The Bill of Rights is essential to our country and establishes the basis for our basic human rights...they are written fine...these so-called 'scholars' need to leave them alone as they are.
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SSgt (Join to see)
It is like petulant little children changing things for the sake of change. A kind of Shock and Awe.
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I would suggest leaving as is, but I would qualify that we need to stop with the selective citations. 2nd amendment supporters (which I'm among) always quote the 1 sentence within the 2nd that seems to support complete freedom to own any type of weapon in any situation, while ignoring the fact that the term "militia" is elaborated upon in multiple places within the constitution and has case precedence as well. As technology changes, we have to allow for interpretation of the constitution. However, I think that things like the commerce clause have been completely misused to remove many 4th amendment protections. It's a fine line and I would prefer constitutional scholars on the supreme court vs appointed (for LIFE) members who cannot be removed, even when they're people like Scalia who clearly misuse the constitution to selectively support his personal agenda.
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SSG Gerhard S.
And Thomas Jefferson nails it clearly... "We established however some, although not all its [self-government] important principles . The constitutions of most of our States assert, that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves, in all cases to which they think themselves competent, (as in electing their functionaries executive and legislative, and deciding by a jury of themselves, in all judiciary cases in which any fact is involved,) or they may act by representatives, freely and equally chosen; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed." — Thomas Jefferson
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MAJ (Join to see)
SSG Seidel - great Jefferson quote, he's one of my favorites. But I would also point out that even back then (see the Whiskey Rebellion) there was a lot of disagreement between federalists like Hamilton (and eventually Washington) and republicans like Jefferson. The founding fathers themselves could never fully agree, and this is why I don't believe in absolutism when it comes to the constitution. And if I recall my history properly, although Jefferson penned the Declaration, he was so angered by the edits made before final ratification that be basically disavowed it. We always act like the constitution was given by Moses as commandments, vs a bunch of guys arguing who finally just agreed on something - although many didn't like it.
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SSG (Join to see)
MAJ Dews, your comment from yesterday puts it very well. The 2A is NOT a mandate for everyone to carry but just so the option is there if a person so chooses. I too am a firearms owner and shooting enthusiast but I DON'T want just anyone to have a firearm nor would I support mandatory ownership, which is not right (think ACA). The problem is people don't understand what making choices is about. Just as I make the choice to purchase a firearm, and train myself through range shooting, it is just as fair for another person to make the choice of NOT purchasing a firearm. The other problem is with limits which there does need to be but NOT in the limiting of firearms themselves. A firearm is nothing but a tool. Just like a bat, an axe, a shovel or a screwdriver. The limits come from ourselves. It comes from taking personal responsibility for our own actions or inactions. For example, while I have the right to own and shoot firearms, it would be very irresponsible of me to arbitrarily shoot a firearm inside a mall. If I did that then I deserve to be prosecuted for the MISUSE of an implement.
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CPT Jack Durish
MAJ (Join to see) Why should a change in technology have any effect on the Constitution? I'm going to keep my response short here inasmuch as I would have to repeat the entirety of my most recent weblog posting. Please check it out there at http://www.jackdurish.com/jacks-blog.html
In summary, the Constitution has nothing to do with governing technology. It's about self-governance by a free people
In summary, the Constitution has nothing to do with governing technology. It's about self-governance by a free people
Blog postings and discussions on a variety of topics including history, opinion, and humor as well as flash fiction and short stories
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Leave it as is. It's the fabric of our constitution. If we start altering it to meet our desires and whims, we create a snowball effect which will distort the focus of what our country was founded on.
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CMDCM Gene Treants
Major, I have to agree. The Constitution is our basic premise of the USA and the Bill of Rights was added to protect us from our Government. We modify the Constitution with Amendments, but have to be careful to not lessen our protections.
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Needs to remain as is, younger people just need to really "learn" what the Amendments are actually saying. Liberals and Conservatives both need to throttle back on the vitriolic hatred that seem to be generated by 1st and 2nd Amendment issues, just because you feel a certain way doesn't mean you can be a total ass about it and disregard the beliefs of others.
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CMDCM Gene Treants
PO3 (Join to see) concour. My own education followed a similar path in elementary school, with Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts and my father and Uncles. I was just saying we need in depth education in HS and College on our founding documents.
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SFC William Swartz Jr
CMDCM Gene Treants & PO3 (Join to see) I too had a similar path as the both of you, I think having been a Cub Scout and Boy Scout taught me a bit more about civics than elementary school may have and definitely more then high school did. It also helped me as I have always been a history buff which helped me learn more about our nation and government than some of my peers in school did.
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CMDCM Gene Treants
SFC William Swartz Jr that begs the question, Is there a way we, or others here on RP or in the military can in any way get todays students interested in studying our founding documents? what can we do to kindle their imaginations and make history come alive for them?
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SFC William Swartz Jr
Without the parents involvement, unless one is an educator I fear that there is not much any of us can do, but that is merely my opinion.
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I would hope the majority of the People of the US acknowledges the importance of the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights and how they were brought together. It was no less than the inspiration of God almighty to bring to pass a constitution that allowed for the Freedom of its people by separating the forces or corruption and one man/woman rule. It was John Locke who thought that the legitimacy of the king resided in the people who would elect him by the consent of the people. It was with their Blood, treasure and their lives that we are endowed by powers of liberty and freedom in a pursuit of individual freedom. How is it this long conversation goes back to trading comfort for safety? It amaze me in this enlightened times we forsake the tenants of history for an ideology that has failed time after time. Dropping the first and or second amendment is akin to giving up your voice and protections for honest debate. When there is a Classical and or Rogerian debate we are persuaded by logic and evidence, where political dissent has its redress in peaceful protest and its people decide. When lawmakers determine which laws to live by when not accountable to them, it is a matter of time when critical mass occurs. Lawmakers should be the first to stand up and live by the laws they institute otherwise credibility and legitimacy is questioned. The IRS stands out to be one of the most critical scandals in the history of the United States because it quelled political speech during an election year. The Press mostly remained silent and those on committee were involved in the accusations. President Richard Nixon was forced to resign for missing 17 minutes of tape ... the IRS is missing thousands of emails and correspondence by having destroyed several hard drives and to this day remains an ongoing investigation. Tells me the press in in bed with the government when they should be accountable to the people. When this foundation, " A Free Press," sides with an ideology it is also no longer credible. I find it hard to believe we are even debating the Bill of Rights??? They are our rights, the people's rights and yet here we are trading the promises that have many times turned to out to be lies for political gain and control. Social Justice is a failed ideology! A man cannot be held accountable for the sins of his father and the redistribution of wealth only kills the ambition of those by taking and giving to those who labor less.
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Cpl Mark McMiller
I wish I could have voted you up twice, MSgt Donnelly.
- IRS scandal - Where is the mainstream media other than Fox?
- Fast and Furious scandal - Where is the mainstream media other than Fox?
- Benghazi scandal - Where is the mainstream media other than Fox?
- Black Panther voter intimidation scandal - Where is the mainstream media other than Fox?
- Global warming scientists caught falsifying data scandal - Where is the mainstream media other than Fox?
Did I leave any scandals out? The mainstream liberal media is in bed with the leftists.
- IRS scandal - Where is the mainstream media other than Fox?
- Fast and Furious scandal - Where is the mainstream media other than Fox?
- Benghazi scandal - Where is the mainstream media other than Fox?
- Black Panther voter intimidation scandal - Where is the mainstream media other than Fox?
- Global warming scientists caught falsifying data scandal - Where is the mainstream media other than Fox?
Did I leave any scandals out? The mainstream liberal media is in bed with the leftists.
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IF a Military person breaks the code of conduct in the military, he can be tried and convicted, IF he breaks his oath to the Constitution, he can be tried for treason and shot... Same should go for those that serve in PUBLIC Offices, if they break the code or their Oath to the constitution, They should be tried by a MILITARY Court system ( as it is the Military's responsibility to keep, and protect the rights given to us in the Constitution ), Now having said that how many young people in the military have ever read the Constitution, and how many fewer are the number that understand, that it is their duty to KNOW that document, and if needed to protect it and the people to whom it grants its rights to, with their lives!!!
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CMDCM Gene Treants
I do not know if it is still done or not, but we were given a class in the Constitution in Boot Camp. It was old hat to me since I had studied it in HS and College, but some of my Shipmate were really enlightened. I still have a pocket copy of the Constitution and pull it out on occasion as well as a copy on my Kindle.
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CPT Jack Durish
Subject our elected officials to the UCMJ? A radical concept, one that makes me smile...
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Either you or your god-daughter doesn't understand the foundation of the United States. I'm thinking it is your god-daughter. The Bill of Rights in our system of government should be absolutely unnecessary because Rights are not given to people. It should be noted that the bill of rights does not give anyone a right. It simply codifies the rights of all free people. The manner of operation of our government is not supposed to be to grant permission or to make something legal but rather to make something illegal. This is in stark contrast to many other systems of government where the people must ask what makes something legal as they require a law to allow them to do something. In America we ask show me the law that makes this act illegal!
The 1st amendment very clearly does not discriminate against atheists. It very clearly protects atheists from having a religion forced upon them. Any other reading of the 1st amendment is in error.
I see no reason for down posting an interesting question!
The 1st amendment very clearly does not discriminate against atheists. It very clearly protects atheists from having a religion forced upon them. Any other reading of the 1st amendment is in error.
I see no reason for down posting an interesting question!
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Cpl Dennis F.
LTC Joseph Gross Can you explain your down vote to me, especially when it appears that you agree with my statement?
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LTC Joseph Gross
Trying to find it. And despite scrolling up and down I can't find it. I don't thumbs down someone because I disagree with them. I've occasionally down checked someone I greatly agreed with simply because he was being a prick or so unprofessional as to make others disregard his position. Were you cursing or belittling someone? That usually sets me off.
I don't want this to be just another liberal (or conservative) attack section. I like seeing good, professional, researched discourse. You might have noticed I down checked the Chief also on one post because he was being a prick. We're supposed to be better than that.
I don't want this to be just another liberal (or conservative) attack section. I like seeing good, professional, researched discourse. You might have noticed I down checked the Chief also on one post because he was being a prick. We're supposed to be better than that.
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Cpl Dennis F.
LTC Joseph Gross "Criminal" in this case is merely a hyperbolic descriptive, commonly used in some parts of the country. On the other hand, questioning the validity of the constitution, after having sworn an oath to uphold it, could in some circles be construed as criminal. In reply to the above: No, No and No I do not think I apply. But thanks for the answer. ( You sometimes have to change the display block from "votes" to newest or oldest to find some posts)
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CPT Jack Durish
If you could see the schools that our children and grandchildren are attending and if you could meet the teachers administering their indoctrination (not education), you wouldn't be surprised by this discussion
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