Posted on Aug 22, 2017
"Declination of continued service" How is it taking care of soldiers by forcing them to sign a DA Form 4991?
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SM#1 who is an average soldier has been duty station for 18 months with 7 months remain until ETS SM requests military school. SM is authorized to go because he meets the 6 months remaining in service to attend. SM#2 is exceptional and married and has been at duty station for 30 months and comes down on orders but his ETS date is in 11 months. He is required to sign a 4991 preventing school.
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 3
It all depends on the individual soldiers needs. I reenlisted for five years for stabilization in 2010. A year to the day I came down on orders, DA select for recruiting. I was about to marry a doctor who needed that stabilization, and I was planning on leaving Active Duty for the Guard. So rather than give up on my relationship, I signed the dec statement. I spent the next four years building a tremendous record of NCOERs, got out, and started an extremely competitively AGR position (best job ever!) in an infantry company in the oldest unit in the military (1-182 In, since 1636). Dec statement worked for me, it can work for others. counse, coach and mentor towards continued success, whether it's headed down a path in the army our outside of it.
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SSG (Join to see)
No I agree that helping soldiers get out of the service is advantageous if that is what the soldier wants. But if the soldier has a better opportunity outside the military with a civilian job but has not received a job offer yet. So may want to reenlist but also may get out; He is forced to stop any progress in his career to wait on a job offer. VIA signing a 4991.
But a average soldier who does not come down on orders but has less time in service remaining can continue to advance his career through military schools.
But a average soldier who does not come down on orders but has less time in service remaining can continue to advance his career through military schools.
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"The service" is all about duty and flexibility. I was told once by a NCO mentor when I was young, every day is the Opertunity to continue to serve. When you think the service is thier for your bennifit, you might need to relook at why your in.
Both soldiers are oresent d with opertunities. SM#1 an Opertunity to appreciate the service giving him the Opertunity to train (retention tool). SM#2 30 month ago on station, new opertunities to break complacency, new challenges, if he or she isn't willing to PCS they may no longer have the needed flexibility to serve anytime, anyplace. Thank them for their service, sign the DEC and move on.
Both soldiers are oresent d with opertunities. SM#1 an Opertunity to appreciate the service giving him the Opertunity to train (retention tool). SM#2 30 month ago on station, new opertunities to break complacency, new challenges, if he or she isn't willing to PCS they may no longer have the needed flexibility to serve anytime, anyplace. Thank them for their service, sign the DEC and move on.
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SSG (Join to see)
You said for SM #2 the " He or she isn't willing to PCS"
I never said they were not willing to PCS They just don't want to extend or reenlist at that current moment in time. If they could PCS without extending or reenlisting they would.
I never said they were not willing to PCS They just don't want to extend or reenlist at that current moment in time. If they could PCS without extending or reenlisting they would.
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because needs of the Army will always outweigh the wants and needs of the individual soldier - sign a dec statement tells the Army that you no longer put the needs of the service first
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SSG (Join to see)
It is intellectually dishonest to say that everyone put the needs of the army first.
Is a married father going to miss the birth of his first born to stay at the office till 1800 writing a 4856? Because he could write it in the morning or in 2 days but that wouldn't be putting the army first. This situation also isn't life or death.
Why do so many get out between 20 and 23 year? Vast majority of SFC and MSG I've seen get out in this time frame. They could both serve another decade.
Saying that an individual doesn't put the service first is insinuating if not directly saying that they are not living the Army Values "Selfless service".
Again the SM in this situation are being forced to sign a 4991 and NOT choosing to do so on there own free will. They are uncertain if they want to continue serving in the military.
Off topic continuation...
How many years does someone have to serve before they can stop putting, as you said "the service first"? Did not President George Washington say "Have I not yet done enough for my country?"
Are these not the words of George Washington
"The willingness with which our young people are likely to serve in any war, no matter how justified, shall be directly proportional to how they perceive the Veterans of earlier wars were treated and appreciated by their nation."
Is a married father going to miss the birth of his first born to stay at the office till 1800 writing a 4856? Because he could write it in the morning or in 2 days but that wouldn't be putting the army first. This situation also isn't life or death.
Why do so many get out between 20 and 23 year? Vast majority of SFC and MSG I've seen get out in this time frame. They could both serve another decade.
Saying that an individual doesn't put the service first is insinuating if not directly saying that they are not living the Army Values "Selfless service".
Again the SM in this situation are being forced to sign a 4991 and NOT choosing to do so on there own free will. They are uncertain if they want to continue serving in the military.
Off topic continuation...
How many years does someone have to serve before they can stop putting, as you said "the service first"? Did not President George Washington say "Have I not yet done enough for my country?"
Are these not the words of George Washington
"The willingness with which our young people are likely to serve in any war, no matter how justified, shall be directly proportional to how they perceive the Veterans of earlier wars were treated and appreciated by their nation."
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SSG Robert Perrotto
SSG (Join to see) - I did not say that - I said when you sign a dec statement, you are putting your wants and needs above the service, you are forcing someone else to take the assignment instead of yourself. if everyone can decline assignments as they please, then places like Sill, Drum, Korea would not have the required personell to get the job done. The needs of the Army will always be first priority to those that run the Army. And to put it bluntly, you choose to sign a declination of continued service statement, that choice has consequences. So I have no sympathy nor empathy for someone who signs one.
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SSG Robert Perrotto
SSG (Join to see) - He is not being forced to sign anything - he can accept the assignment. yes - at certain times in your career, you will be challenged by an assignment that you would rather not go to, or pick up a SRR that will force you to choose between deccing it, or reenlisting. suck it up and make the choice, then live with the consequences.
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SGT (Join to see)
But to say you either have to re-enlist (Which states it is not truly voluntary), or sign a DEC statement saying you cannot work a federal job following separation (Which is true to today), is essentially forcing a re-enlistment on a service member who plans on moving on with his or her own life. That's a hell of an ultimatum, and by the way, even as service members you still have the rights of any US Citizen. If that is how the military treats a volunteer force, they won't see numbers sustained or rising and I think that's a big mistake. If someone feels they no longer wish to stay in the service, there is no reason to make that person feel obligated to stay by forcing his or her hand. Yes, while you are in the service you must comply with all orders while you are in, but you're also stunting the so-called "Assisted transition" out of the military.
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