Posted on Sep 8, 2015
"Colonel: Soldiers Should Not 'Impose' On All Afghan Customs, Including Child Rape"
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From: Breitbart
United States soldiers should tolerate all Afghan customs, even if they go against American moral values, suggested Col. Steve Johnson, referring to a decorated Green Beret who has been reprimanded by the U.S. Army for “striking” a child rapist in Afghanistan back in September 2011.
“You cannot try to impose American values and American norms onto the Afghan culture because they’re completely different… We can report and we can encourage them,” Col. Johnson told The News Tribune. “We do not have any power or the ability to use our hands to compel them to be what we see as morally better.”
The practice of influential men using underage boys as their sexual patterns, known as “Bacha Bazi,” is an illegal but common custom in Afghanistan.
Sgt. First Class (SFC) Charles Martland, the Green Beret, is expected to be kicked out of the Army by November 1.
Johnson’s comments drew the ire of Rep. Duncan Hunter (R-CA) who, along with severRep. Al Green (D-TX) Beret veterans, argues that the Army should not discharge Martland for standing up to the alleged rapist, identified as Afghan local police (ALP) commander Abdul Rahman.
The incident took place in Afghanistan’s Kunduz province.
Hunter, a veteran of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, declared that the Army’s decision to dismiss Sgt. Martland shows the “moral decay” currently afflicting military leadership. Rep. Hunter told Breitbart News:
Martland’s experience shows the type of moral decay among certain aspects of military leadership—starting at the top. In fact, had he not intervened in my opinion, that should have been grounds for removal. At what point will Army leadership stand up for Martland for doing the right thing? Instead, they continue to hide behind a process that seems to makes most sense, in the case specifically, to an Afghan rapist who was happy to see Martland pulled from duty.
Rep. Hunter, who serves on the House Armed Services Committee, has written three letters to Defense Secretary Ashton Carter asking him to intervene in the Army’s case against the Green Beret, for the purpose of granting him his wish to continue serving in the U.S. Army.
Sgt. Martland admitted “striking” the alleged rapist accused of kidnapping, chaining, and raping a 12-year-old boy and then beating his mother for pleading for help. The local police commander reportedly laughed about committing the crimes.
Rep. Duncan Hunter disagrees with Col. Johnson’s comments about U.S. soldiers having to tolerate all Afghan customs even if they go against American moral values.
“It is, in fact, a fundamental duty for our military to project American power, strength, and values,”wrote the congressman in the most recent letter addressed to Sec. Carter, dated September 1. “The ALP commander’s action was a human rights violations—and SFC Martland was right to step in and attempt to protect the child from further harm.”
Duncan also noted that Col. Johnson, in talking to The News Tribune, claimed the alleged rapist was “an inch from his death” after he was assaulted by Sgt. Martland and Quinn.
A cultural adviser and linguist who witnessed the incident contradicted those allegations, telling the office of Rep. Hunter, on condition of anonymity, that the rapist exaggerated the nature of his wounds, adding that the provincial police chief “strongly condemned” the alleged rapist and suggested that “he should be dismissed, arrested and put away.”
The police chief commended Sgt. Martland for confronting the Afghan police commander who allegedly laughed when approached by Martland.
Prior to the September 2011 incident, Col. Steve Johnson commanded Sgt. Charles Martland when he was the commander in the Army’s 1st Special Forces Group.
Johnson was in Afghanistan when Martland and Capt. Daniel Quinn, his Green Beret team leader, approached Rahman for allegedly kidnapping, chaining, and raping a 12-year-old boy and then beating his mother for reaching out to the Green Berets for help.
The Army reprimanded Martland and Quinn, relieving them from their duties in Afghanistan’s Kunduz province where the incident took place back in 2011.
Quinn has since taken a private sector job in New York. Sgt. Martland is fighting to stay in the military.
Sgt. Martland is now facing involuntary discharge from the Army.
A spokesperson for the U.S. Army and the public affairs office for the U.S. Army Special Operations Command, citing the Privacy Act, told Breitbart News that the Army was unable to confirm whether or not the September 2011 incident is linked to its decision to remove Martland.
When Breitbart News asked for a comment on accusations that the Army had chosen to side with the rapist instead of Sgt. Martland, the U.S. Army Special Operations Command, said, “The Privacy Act prevents us from releasing any additional information about the administrative action taken regarding this topic.”
When the 2011 incident occurred, Sgt. Martland was serving with an elite Joint Base Lewis-McChord unit.
http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/09/02/colonel-u-s-soldiers-should-not-impose-on-all-afghan-customs-including-child-rape/
United States soldiers should tolerate all Afghan customs, even if they go against American moral values, suggested Col. Steve Johnson, referring to a decorated Green Beret who has been reprimanded by the U.S. Army for “striking” a child rapist in Afghanistan back in September 2011.
“You cannot try to impose American values and American norms onto the Afghan culture because they’re completely different… We can report and we can encourage them,” Col. Johnson told The News Tribune. “We do not have any power or the ability to use our hands to compel them to be what we see as morally better.”
The practice of influential men using underage boys as their sexual patterns, known as “Bacha Bazi,” is an illegal but common custom in Afghanistan.
Sgt. First Class (SFC) Charles Martland, the Green Beret, is expected to be kicked out of the Army by November 1.
Johnson’s comments drew the ire of Rep. Duncan Hunter (R-CA) who, along with severRep. Al Green (D-TX) Beret veterans, argues that the Army should not discharge Martland for standing up to the alleged rapist, identified as Afghan local police (ALP) commander Abdul Rahman.
The incident took place in Afghanistan’s Kunduz province.
Hunter, a veteran of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, declared that the Army’s decision to dismiss Sgt. Martland shows the “moral decay” currently afflicting military leadership. Rep. Hunter told Breitbart News:
Martland’s experience shows the type of moral decay among certain aspects of military leadership—starting at the top. In fact, had he not intervened in my opinion, that should have been grounds for removal. At what point will Army leadership stand up for Martland for doing the right thing? Instead, they continue to hide behind a process that seems to makes most sense, in the case specifically, to an Afghan rapist who was happy to see Martland pulled from duty.
Rep. Hunter, who serves on the House Armed Services Committee, has written three letters to Defense Secretary Ashton Carter asking him to intervene in the Army’s case against the Green Beret, for the purpose of granting him his wish to continue serving in the U.S. Army.
Sgt. Martland admitted “striking” the alleged rapist accused of kidnapping, chaining, and raping a 12-year-old boy and then beating his mother for pleading for help. The local police commander reportedly laughed about committing the crimes.
Rep. Duncan Hunter disagrees with Col. Johnson’s comments about U.S. soldiers having to tolerate all Afghan customs even if they go against American moral values.
“It is, in fact, a fundamental duty for our military to project American power, strength, and values,”wrote the congressman in the most recent letter addressed to Sec. Carter, dated September 1. “The ALP commander’s action was a human rights violations—and SFC Martland was right to step in and attempt to protect the child from further harm.”
Duncan also noted that Col. Johnson, in talking to The News Tribune, claimed the alleged rapist was “an inch from his death” after he was assaulted by Sgt. Martland and Quinn.
A cultural adviser and linguist who witnessed the incident contradicted those allegations, telling the office of Rep. Hunter, on condition of anonymity, that the rapist exaggerated the nature of his wounds, adding that the provincial police chief “strongly condemned” the alleged rapist and suggested that “he should be dismissed, arrested and put away.”
The police chief commended Sgt. Martland for confronting the Afghan police commander who allegedly laughed when approached by Martland.
Prior to the September 2011 incident, Col. Steve Johnson commanded Sgt. Charles Martland when he was the commander in the Army’s 1st Special Forces Group.
Johnson was in Afghanistan when Martland and Capt. Daniel Quinn, his Green Beret team leader, approached Rahman for allegedly kidnapping, chaining, and raping a 12-year-old boy and then beating his mother for reaching out to the Green Berets for help.
The Army reprimanded Martland and Quinn, relieving them from their duties in Afghanistan’s Kunduz province where the incident took place back in 2011.
Quinn has since taken a private sector job in New York. Sgt. Martland is fighting to stay in the military.
Sgt. Martland is now facing involuntary discharge from the Army.
A spokesperson for the U.S. Army and the public affairs office for the U.S. Army Special Operations Command, citing the Privacy Act, told Breitbart News that the Army was unable to confirm whether or not the September 2011 incident is linked to its decision to remove Martland.
When Breitbart News asked for a comment on accusations that the Army had chosen to side with the rapist instead of Sgt. Martland, the U.S. Army Special Operations Command, said, “The Privacy Act prevents us from releasing any additional information about the administrative action taken regarding this topic.”
When the 2011 incident occurred, Sgt. Martland was serving with an elite Joint Base Lewis-McChord unit.
http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/09/02/colonel-u-s-soldiers-should-not-impose-on-all-afghan-customs-including-child-rape/
Army
Afghanistan
Customs and Courtesies
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 151
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Alright, thinking about this a little more now, and contemplating a couple of things:
1- We're probably instructed not to deal with this "custom" because it is likely widespread, and rooting it out and dealing with it would basically be the beginning of a never-ending mission of social work. Since we don't know how long we're going to be there, with bases or whatnot, someone probably decided that it's just a can of worms that shouldn't be opened unless we are going to commit to it-- and, while we're trying to end the process, it'll lead to confrontation with the Afghans. And if we pull out of Afghanistan entirely, it'll go right back to the way it was.
2- In the meantime, being told to ignore this situation is pretty much asking our troops to do the impossible: to ignore a serious crime and to contain themselves from acting against it, while simultaneously upholding standards of conduct and rules of war. We all know what the end result will be: troops operating at the tactical level will sneak out quietly and administer "justice" on their own while squad and platoon leadership pretends not to know anything-- and that is how discipline begins to break down.
The decision whether to commit or not to Afghanistan needs to be made, and made quickly, so we can either devote ourselves to correcting this nonsense, or extricate ourselves as soon as possible. Every new dawn in Afghanistan without a commitment either way is going to contribute to a serious erosion.
1- We're probably instructed not to deal with this "custom" because it is likely widespread, and rooting it out and dealing with it would basically be the beginning of a never-ending mission of social work. Since we don't know how long we're going to be there, with bases or whatnot, someone probably decided that it's just a can of worms that shouldn't be opened unless we are going to commit to it-- and, while we're trying to end the process, it'll lead to confrontation with the Afghans. And if we pull out of Afghanistan entirely, it'll go right back to the way it was.
2- In the meantime, being told to ignore this situation is pretty much asking our troops to do the impossible: to ignore a serious crime and to contain themselves from acting against it, while simultaneously upholding standards of conduct and rules of war. We all know what the end result will be: troops operating at the tactical level will sneak out quietly and administer "justice" on their own while squad and platoon leadership pretends not to know anything-- and that is how discipline begins to break down.
The decision whether to commit or not to Afghanistan needs to be made, and made quickly, so we can either devote ourselves to correcting this nonsense, or extricate ourselves as soon as possible. Every new dawn in Afghanistan without a commitment either way is going to contribute to a serious erosion.
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CPT (Join to see) - Military personnel should never be denied the right to report and confront illegal/immoral activity, regardless of the location and circumstances. While I do not know all the details of the incident, from what I have read, it appears that SFC Martland should be cleared of any wrongdoing, his records should be corrected, and he should be retained in the military.
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Damn right. Taking offense to pederasty might have a bad effect on Defense stocks.
Walt
Walt
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Well known fact, Vice news had a good documentary about that almost 2 years ago and no body sad any thing back then
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SGT (Join to see)
No it does not but what can you do when you have to win harts and minds (bull shit line) in an ass back words country
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SFC William Farrell
If thats the price we have to pay SGT (Join to see) , then we dont belong there any more. After we got Bin Laden, we should have gotten the hell out anyways.
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SGT (Join to see)
Unfortunately that is happening for long long time before we even went to Afghanistan
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This is an example of of where professional ethics and personal values are in conflict and each and every person has to make a decision for him or her self. It is never right to allow someone to attack a child. However, this is my personal opinion. When I put on my uniform a Soldier I am paid to follow orders. I have not agreed with every order that I had to follow because some of them are difficult. However, no one ever said being a Soldier or a leader would be easy. i simply don't think there is a right or wrong in this situation. I just pray that those placed in these situations will make the best decisions they can.
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SGT (Join to see)
Cpl James Waycasie, If I found out my 12 year old daughter was having sex with any aged male, I'd probably go nuts and kill the bastard. That's kind of strange with the age ranges. Here in Texas, any female under 17 is a minor, period.
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Cpl James Waycasie
SFC Christopher Springs - Do you know that General James Mattis and several other Top echelon Officers resigned because the CIC asked if they would follow the order without question to fire on American citizens? Their answer was no. I guess if the order to stand down on innocents being raped and tortured is followed by our military, I would imagine the same ones wouldn't hesitate to put a bullet in a fellow American either. If protecting an innocent child starts an international incident so be it. Used to the USA would jump all over somebody's ass if just one American was hurt or killed. Used to the USA cared about what happened to people. I guess in today's society it's just everyone for himself and to hell with doing what's right. I suppose when all the Muslims here want to start doing it to our children , hey it's ok stand down , it's just their friggen cultural beliefs, no harm, no foul right? Oh but that would be different right? No it ain't different. One child in any nation has the right to live terror free as much as anybody else . My God why don't we just let the little Hitlers of the world do as they please! I bet when the crap hits your front door, you won't see it as hey should we follow this order? If it was your child I'm sure you wouldn't give a crap about orders, or about what kind of stink it would stir and you wouldn't even be thinking about whether it might endanger some other troops lives. This world has become so immoral and stupid. I pray Jesus returns soon and ends all this garbage.
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Cpl James Waycasie
SGT (Join to see) - Georgia is the same. Touch a 16 yr old or under and your in trouble big time.
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SFC Christopher Springs
I respect your right to your opinion and I applaud your passion concerning this topic. I stated before I don't believe that what he did was wrong on a personal level. If I was given the order or placed in the situation I cannot say that I would not have acted in the same manner. We are in agreement here. Where we are not in agreement Sir is when you say that "if this crap was at my front door or if it was my child?" You have now taken this from a topic of discussion and attacked me personally which I do not appreciate or tolerate. We should be able to have a discussion as professionals and offer up our points of view without feeling attacked for it. I am a National Victim Advocate. I deal with issues of Sexual Harassment, Sexual Assault and Victim Advocacy every single day! There are cultural considerations to take into effect when dealing with these issues. There are laws, policies and rules and other things that must be addressed. The fact that this Soldier's career is now on the line should be a clear indicator of that. I don' think anyone in their right mind is disagreeing with what he did personally. I don't think that anyone would disagree that he upheld our Army values of personal courage, selfless service, and honor. I also don't know like I stated before in my original post what the right answer is for this subject. I think it is a question that has to be answered individually by each of us. Look at how you responded to me just for giving you my opinion on the topic! Now imagine that affecting millions of lives. All I am saying is that these decisions should not be taken lightly and they are not easy to make. All that being said I will not speak on this topic again because what you said about me and my child really struck a cord with me as being completely unprofessional and I don't do that. We are all entitled to our opinions right or wrong that is why we are having a discussion. Take Care. Best of luck.
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Duplicate topic (again).
https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/afghan-commanders-abuse-children-don-t-tell-me-its-cultural was posted first.
https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/is-this-where-our-honor-lies?urlhash=981026 was posted second. I'm sure there were others I didn't see.
Same NY Times link in all three.
https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/afghan-commanders-abuse-children-don-t-tell-me-its-cultural was posted first.
https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/is-this-where-our-honor-lies?urlhash=981026 was posted second. I'm sure there were others I didn't see.
Same NY Times link in all three.
Afghan Commanders Abuse Children, Don't Tell me Its Cultural | RallyPoint
While I have not served in Afghanistan and do not know their culture nor their customs, no sane person can tell me what is happening here is OK and that our military has said to ignore this. The Marine in the picture, his father believes he died as a result of the Marines allowing this abuse to continue. Does anyone on RP believe this is OK or has anyone know about it? Personally I'd want to do the same thing CPT Quinn but I think I would have...
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Only thing to do is request a transfer and GTFO of there.
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Graveyard of Empires. Afghanistan and its people cannot be changed, and by being there our forces just cause more imbalances. NO reason to be there or name me one.
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Some Leaders certainly do not like their boat being rocked.
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I've responded to similar threads on this matter but here we go...First, it is a crime in Afghanistan to sexually assault a child. It is not a "cultural" issue. This isn't taking your shoes off or something. It is a crime and a brutal one at that. When observed, we should be stopping it and at least turning these people over to the authorities. If the authorities do not/will not act then we have at least done what we could.
What message do we send to the parents of those children or to junior enlisted people observing this? I think we send a pathetic and weak message on doing the right thing.
The reality is we likely do not want to expose powerful locals we might need for the effort so we turn a blind eye to the assaults. It is disgusting and I would love to see some Pentagon brass get to answer some questions about the "policy" in the media.
Integrity and character and fundamental underpinnings of leadership. What sort of example are we setting and what sort of moral relativism is being accepted by leadership in the armed forces.
We don't have to seek it out or get into law enforcement but when we see it, we should stop it and turn the scumbag in and let them take it from there.
What message do we send to the parents of those children or to junior enlisted people observing this? I think we send a pathetic and weak message on doing the right thing.
The reality is we likely do not want to expose powerful locals we might need for the effort so we turn a blind eye to the assaults. It is disgusting and I would love to see some Pentagon brass get to answer some questions about the "policy" in the media.
Integrity and character and fundamental underpinnings of leadership. What sort of example are we setting and what sort of moral relativism is being accepted by leadership in the armed forces.
We don't have to seek it out or get into law enforcement but when we see it, we should stop it and turn the scumbag in and let them take it from there.
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