Posted on Feb 22, 2016
Can you make Soldiers do administrative tasks between battle assemblies without paying them?
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Army Reserve
Army Reserve
Posted 9 y ago
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Can you? Well you can try. Let me know how that works out for you. Ok sarcasm aside..
I've seen a lot of topics on this on how much time in between drills Soldiers have to do stuff on their own time. I'm going to bring up a couple of points here, and I am only basing this from my little corner of the world in the NG. I'm sure this will ruffle some feathers.
A. Traditional M-Day Soldiers that say they have to dedicate so much time in between drills (I've seen some say 40-60 hrs). I call BS. That's more time (on the high end) that I spend working on items for my ENTIRE unit. IMHO seems like some serious Time Management issues on their end or they have lazy Full Time Support Personnel.
B. Time Management Time Management Time Management. Did I say Time Management? That is directed towards drill weekends. For those that say Drill weekends are tied up with mandatory briefs, online training etc, and have no time to do their jobs I ask this what time does your usual time for drill start? 0800 first formation? What time do you get released? 1600? 1700? How many Traditional M-Day Soldiers realize that for 1 day of drill they get 2 days AD pay?
C. Now again from my corner of the world. Every year when we get our YTC/YTG from higher I sit down with my CDR, Tng NCO, and we plan out our WHOLE year on a Comapny YTC. We plug in all the mandatory training that is required along with all of our METL training. We do quite a few overnight drills at our local training site. So guess what? Our day doesn't end at 1600, 1700, or 1800. We take advantage of the time we have when we have the entire unit together. Our days also don't start at 0800 either. Guess what? We accomplish all that is required of us. Soldiers are motivated because they are doing good training. Obviously there is never enough time for training, but we do as much as we can to do our damnedest to make sure we are as close to standards as possible.
Yes this was somewhat of a quasi vent, but I'm pretty tired of hearing all this "I have to dedicate so much time in between drills". Like I'm told when I see a problem, and want to address it I better have A solution to fix it.
I've seen a lot of topics on this on how much time in between drills Soldiers have to do stuff on their own time. I'm going to bring up a couple of points here, and I am only basing this from my little corner of the world in the NG. I'm sure this will ruffle some feathers.
A. Traditional M-Day Soldiers that say they have to dedicate so much time in between drills (I've seen some say 40-60 hrs). I call BS. That's more time (on the high end) that I spend working on items for my ENTIRE unit. IMHO seems like some serious Time Management issues on their end or they have lazy Full Time Support Personnel.
B. Time Management Time Management Time Management. Did I say Time Management? That is directed towards drill weekends. For those that say Drill weekends are tied up with mandatory briefs, online training etc, and have no time to do their jobs I ask this what time does your usual time for drill start? 0800 first formation? What time do you get released? 1600? 1700? How many Traditional M-Day Soldiers realize that for 1 day of drill they get 2 days AD pay?
C. Now again from my corner of the world. Every year when we get our YTC/YTG from higher I sit down with my CDR, Tng NCO, and we plan out our WHOLE year on a Comapny YTC. We plug in all the mandatory training that is required along with all of our METL training. We do quite a few overnight drills at our local training site. So guess what? Our day doesn't end at 1600, 1700, or 1800. We take advantage of the time we have when we have the entire unit together. Our days also don't start at 0800 either. Guess what? We accomplish all that is required of us. Soldiers are motivated because they are doing good training. Obviously there is never enough time for training, but we do as much as we can to do our damnedest to make sure we are as close to standards as possible.
Yes this was somewhat of a quasi vent, but I'm pretty tired of hearing all this "I have to dedicate so much time in between drills". Like I'm told when I see a problem, and want to address it I better have A solution to fix it.
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LTC (Join to see)
No worries. I was just trying to add some input. Reserves can be a second job. However, my SGM always ensures the Soldiers know that as long as there is money (Which is the key) they will get paid as long as they document the time. There is the retirement point though, either way. My active time (14 yrs) was busier than I am now with reserves and work. However, there are times, when the reserves can be overwhelming.
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SFC (Join to see)
Outside of IDT or AD orders, soldiers must be compensated (pay, points or both) for anything in service of the Army. A gray area argument could be made in the realm of off-duty PT. Another gray one - DTS. The regs say a soldier must file the voucher but is silent on obtaining the authorization. In either case, its silent on compensation for doing so. But not so gray - an on-duty Soldier is not allowed to accept free services from others for the Army. It is an Anti-Deficiency Act violation under the Limitation on Voluntary Services clause, 31 USC § 1342. The GAO determined (B-309301), however, that's its ok so long as such free services were agreed to in writing and in advance of the service provided. Otherwise, its a coercive deficiency and an improper augmentation of an appropriation (GAO-06-382SP), and now, a Class E felony (31 U.S.C. §§ 1350, 1519). The intention here is that if its going to break...let it break so it can get fixed. Don't give big Army the false impression that the system is working.
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CW3 (Join to see)
Plus, that 2 for 1 AD pay doesn't include the allowances, so that's a red herring.
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SSG (Join to see)
What is the AR or Policy letter that covers soldiers being paid for admin work outside IDT schedule
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They can do a 1380 to get retirement points if he or she has run out of RST's.
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CPT (Join to see)
Oh ok, I mean if the squad leader wants to risk holding off on it until bta, then he most likely won't meet the expectations that were set on his support form counseling so that's on him/her if he doesn't get his desired rating. A good squad leader won't look to get paid to check on a Soldier, that's just my opinion and I know you're looking for something in writing. I'll monitor this discussion as I'm interested in seeing former company commanders and 1sg's give some good input.
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MAJ (Join to see)
SFC (Join to see) - you should reimburse them for their time like others stated by submitting 1380 for retirement points only. You can counsel them on their duties and responsibilities as an NCO. The counseling should be written in a manner to motivate them not a negative counseling. Keeping your Soldiers late during Battle Assemble to accomplish pre-identified tasks, may motivate them to have them accomplished ahead of time. Just don't keep them late because you failed to plan.
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SFC Kenneth Hunnell
Plans tend to fail. I identify what is to be done, assign task to those that need to accomplish them, give them the resources to accomplish task. That is not a plan, it is a task
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Depends on tasks. As leaders we tend to do way more and not get put in for pay for it, it just comes with the job. For junior Soldiers sometimes yes so they can do funny and good training and do the online course at home to have that extra time outside the drill hall with mandatory training or to do their stuff for promotion.
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SFC (Join to see)
Roger that Sir! I really try and motivate my soldier to knock all of that online training out so we can go to the fun training.
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