Posted on Aug 30, 2020
Can a character of discharge from the USMC be changed from General to Honorable?
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I got back to base and formation late. I got NJP'ed for not being in formation without notifying command that I was going to be late during out processing for an injury. So they change my discharge from a Honorable to a General Under Honorable conditions. That was back in 2009, it is 2020 now. Is it possible that I can get that amended based on clemency or any other way? I can't use my GI bill without it being an Honorable discharge.
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 65
So what you really mean is that you took liberty, or a pass for us non Marine folks, WAY outside the liberty limits by several hundred miles and then didn't return till an unspecified amount of time later. I'm curious if you were also reported AWOL.
I agree with everyone else that there is more to this story. Not that I haven't seen commanders in the USMC do petty things like what you've said, you're just only providing the parts of the story that sound favorable to you and paint you in a positive light. For instance, you said you were being separated for a medical injury, but you were not separated by a Med Board or you wouldn't have received a GUH because the commander is not the separation authority for Med Board service members. It's not likely that you were actually outprocessing because who would let someone take a pass while they are clearing?
Too much doesn't add up. Good luck with getting your upgrade.
I agree with everyone else that there is more to this story. Not that I haven't seen commanders in the USMC do petty things like what you've said, you're just only providing the parts of the story that sound favorable to you and paint you in a positive light. For instance, you said you were being separated for a medical injury, but you were not separated by a Med Board or you wouldn't have received a GUH because the commander is not the separation authority for Med Board service members. It's not likely that you were actually outprocessing because who would let someone take a pass while they are clearing?
Too much doesn't add up. Good luck with getting your upgrade.
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You have a post from a year ago. If you were a Marine, why is this not in your profile? Instead, you are listed as Army National Guard. Complete your profile and have it verified. You are not telling us all of the details because your story does not add up.
You were AWOL because you were not authorized to go all the way to NYC from North Carolina on liberty (600 miles). All Marines know to notify their leadership if they can not make formation.
You were AWOL because you were not authorized to go all the way to NYC from North Carolina on liberty (600 miles). All Marines know to notify their leadership if they can not make formation.
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GySgt William Hardy
I agree, a simple phone call would have done the trick unless you were in my situation where I didn't have immediate access to a phone (before cell phone in the late 60s) and was about to board a plane to get back to base. In those days we had liberty cards and my liberty was up at midnight on Sunday. I got back at 0400 and was marked UA for 4 hours. I didn't miss any duty, I was not late for formation. It was just logged in the duty log book that I came in after midnight. The difference was it was a one time thing. I had one CO tear the page out of my records. It was still in my permanent record at HQ USMC, but it was no longer in the records I carried from assignment to assignment.
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I suspect their is more than the one incident. It is highly unlikely that the command gave you a discharge based on that one time for that matter even two or three times.
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MSgt (Join to see)
1SG Alan Boggs CMSgt Virgil Horsley
I don't even see anything in his profile that suggest he was even in the Corps.
I don't even see anything in his profile that suggest he was even in the Corps.
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GySgt Michael Roma
his discharge is going to be based on his Pro and Con marks, unless he was discharged immediately after his punishment and subsequently received low Proficiency and conduct marks stemming from that, which is the standard and, it brought his average down low enough where an honorable discharge couldn't be given. On a side note: you reap what you sow
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Non-judicial punishment is for minor offenses that require correction and does not warrant separation. If you served your punishment, you character of discharge should not change. Now with that being said, you must have done something that warranted the general discharge and I can promise you with certainty you are leaving out key details of this story.
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SPC Kevin West
I was getting out because of an injury and during that time I got njp'ed for being late for formation. I went into CO officer to sign the paperwork and it just so happen that they change my character of discharge during out processing.
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SSG (Join to see)
SPC Kevin West - that is not how any of this works dude. Ive been in long enough to recognize BS when I read it.
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Sgt Steven M.
Spc West, a reduction in Discharge status requires more than 1 NJP. I suspect your injury was not Army-related. I also suspect you had several more disciplinary actions than you are revealing here. Sorry pal, no sympathy or advice here. Although in answer to your original question, it is possible to get a GuH upgraded. Not guaranteed, by any stretch.
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I feel this is a generational issue more than anything else. As a Vietnam Vet, over the decades, it seems to me that our society (USA) as a whole simply is no longer what it used to be. A good example is Covid - 19. I lived the first 18 years of my life in a very tiny midwest farm town. Morality, decency, kindness, gentleness, were all extremely common practiced adjectives. The 'age of reason' was accepted without question for a chil'd 8th birthday, yet, today, aside from my two children I don't know a soul under the age of 50 who knows what the 'age of reason' means. All 50 states had Blue Laws, for example, in my state it was illegal for a man with a moustache to kiss a woman in public on a sidewalk. Most blue laws were absurd and a bit vindictive and when the Boomer generation got their law degrees they set out to rid each state of Blue Laws. Profanity was rare, the first time I ever heard the "F..." word I was 20 years old. It was not such a stretch of the imagination for young adults to comply with rules, regulations, policies, procedures, etc., and if you did something wrong the vast majority of people knew it and they accepted the consequences because they knew they deserved those consequences. Today, I would venture to say thapent only 30% of people under the age of 50 understand when they do something wrong and yet, 50% understand that they deserve the consequences of their mis-behavior. Rules and regulations are not written and implemented 'to be broken' and then, hence, 'to be argued to fill a void in your brain or your life'. They are there to protect you as much as to protect others. If you choose to live you live on the edge or to deliberately defy the United States societal norms, you do have other choices, such as; moving to another country, spending your life in prison, or merely suffering the consequences of your behavior. Have you done anything to redeem yourself to our society that entitles you to an upgrade? For example, have you perhaps donated a year of your time helping the needy, in any capacity? How can you prove that you are worthy of such an upgrade? You do not just deserve 'free' handouts.
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If you are honestly looking for assistance you should provide the correct details up front. Too much about your story seems inconsistent. This is a great place to seek out advice, but you can't BS a group with a collective military history of over 1000 years.
Give us the whole story all at once and you will receive sound advice. Otherwise, don't bother.
Give us the whole story all at once and you will receive sound advice. Otherwise, don't bother.
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The process used to be application/petition the Board for Correction of Naval Records (BCNR). It may have changed. They correct admin errors, but an application to upgrade must be fully warranted, based on the evidence provided. It must have merit.
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SPC Kevin West
I don't see anything in your profile that suggest you were in the Corps. Is there more to your story?
I don't see anything in your profile that suggest you were in the Corps. Is there more to your story?
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MSgt (Join to see)
Sgt Steven M. - An Army Specialist is equivlent to a Marine Corporal but is not an NCO.
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"They" can't unilaterally change the nature of a discharge since it is a straight mathematical calculation of your average conduct mark. That said, you can still apply for modification.
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LtCol Robert Quinter
SPC Kevin West - Being in trouble is only one factor in assigning conduct marks. As per the IRAM the highest marks are reserved for those who: "In addition to observance of the letter of law and regulations, conduct includes conformance to accepted usage and custom, and positive contributions to unit and Corps. General bearing, attitude, interest, reliability, courtesy, cooperation, obedience, adaptability, influence on others, moral fitness,physical fitness as effected by clean and temperate habits, and participation in unit activities not related directly to unit mission, are all factors of conduct and should be considered in evaluating the Marine. ... Assignment to the weight control program is another factor which should be considered when assigning conduct marks."
Everyone less than this standard gets a lower mark; the further you deviate from this ideal, the lower your mark. The lowest mark for an average Marine allows "No offenses.
No unfavorable impressions as to attitude, interests, cooperation, obedience, after-effects of intemperance, courtesy and consideration, and observance of regulations." during the observation period. If a 4.0 to 5.0 grading was easy, everyone would get them.
Everyone less than this standard gets a lower mark; the further you deviate from this ideal, the lower your mark. The lowest mark for an average Marine allows "No offenses.
No unfavorable impressions as to attitude, interests, cooperation, obedience, after-effects of intemperance, courtesy and consideration, and observance of regulations." during the observation period. If a 4.0 to 5.0 grading was easy, everyone would get them.
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SGT Doug Blanchard
If you were a Narune, why does your profile show you were in the Army as an 11B infantry and why are you using a Specialist rank. The Marines do not have Specialist Rank designation. That is an Army designation.
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LtCol Dennis Ivan
SPC Kevin West were you kicked out in entry level training? And if so, what was your academic standard in training.
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Yes.
BREAK
No one here can help you if you're not going to be honest. No one get's a General characterization of service from one minor incident. There is clearly far more to his story than you're telling us, and those details can be the difference between success or failure in your efforts to change the characterization of your discharge.
BREAK
No one here can help you if you're not going to be honest. No one get's a General characterization of service from one minor incident. There is clearly far more to his story than you're telling us, and those details can be the difference between success or failure in your efforts to change the characterization of your discharge.
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MSgt (Join to see)
SPC Kevin West Did you inform your Squad Leader or Platoon Leader about the weather? Statements like that can help. How about Line of Duty for the torn ligament? All those timelines can help with your statement.
I am reading a few of the responses to you and I believe you. I've seen it all especially in the Corps. I've been in since 2001 and many of my high school friends went to the Corps and left with the same story.
I am reading a few of the responses to you and I believe you. I've seen it all especially in the Corps. I've been in since 2001 and many of my high school friends went to the Corps and left with the same story.
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SPC Kevin West
It was a Labrum lesion if I'm not mistaken. It was labeled a condition not a disability. I didn't serve my complete enlistment. I made through the Marine Corps boot camp.
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Sgt Steven M.
MSgt (Join to see) - Sorry, Top, but you missed a vital piece of information, or 2. First, no "Specialist" rank in my Corps. Second, how the hell do you make E-4 in initial training (again, not what we call that) This dude is either Army, or "stolen valor". Certainly no U.S. Marine.
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MSgt (Join to see)
Sgt Steven M. not sure when he joined but I know we had E4s at MOSQ which is still considered IET. If you had college credits you were automatically an E3 at contract, and at 6 months they'd get E4. Also some were split-op, the Guard had this and I think still do where 17 year old juniors go to boot, go to drill, and summer of senior year they would go to MOSQ a year later essentially getting E4 at their unit.
There are ways but you're right I don't think the Corps does it.
There are ways but you're right I don't think the Corps does it.
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