Posted on May 23, 2015
A 'Band of Sisters' on the Special Ops Battlefield. Your thoughts?
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Even before women were allowed in combat roles, a group of female soldiers gained crucial information for special operations units.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/23/opinions/lemmon-band-of-sisters-special-ops/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/23/opinions/lemmon-band-of-sisters-special-ops/index.html
Special Operations
Women in the Military
Army
Afghanistan
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 19
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In the words of that annoying Disney song 'Let it Go'.
Females can and are able to do military police, as well as combat medic. They can be attached to all male units, and some even serve quite well going above and beyond. But females do not and should not ever belong in combat all male units. Just like God said in the book of Leviticus, 'it is confusing'. And besides, why take every little thing the man does and has? Females are greedy, males leave the females alone and don't try to join in their groups. Men were made by God as bigger and stronger. Yes, females can do a lot, but many things they cannot and should not. Heck, even some males, or a lot of males do not have the strength and ability.
Just saying to Let it go already. I don't believe it worked out for females at Fort Sill, they were quite annoyed by us. Didn't work out for those 101 males and 8 females either.
Females can and are able to do military police, as well as combat medic. They can be attached to all male units, and some even serve quite well going above and beyond. But females do not and should not ever belong in combat all male units. Just like God said in the book of Leviticus, 'it is confusing'. And besides, why take every little thing the man does and has? Females are greedy, males leave the females alone and don't try to join in their groups. Men were made by God as bigger and stronger. Yes, females can do a lot, but many things they cannot and should not. Heck, even some males, or a lot of males do not have the strength and ability.
Just saying to Let it go already. I don't believe it worked out for females at Fort Sill, they were quite annoyed by us. Didn't work out for those 101 males and 8 females either.
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1LT William Clardy
CPT (Join to see), whenever my "PC thing" starts getting out of hand, I hit the power button -- and if that doesn't make it obey, I pull the power cord...
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1LT William Clardy
SGT Felicia King, I've always found war a bit confusing, so I would consider Leviticus to be as relevant to the selection of combat soldiers as how they drink water (for those of you who don't remember Judges 7, think of Gideon's army).
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SGT Felicia King
1LT Clardy, I didn't mean to use Leviticus as a reference. I was simply using that one statement just to prove a point about it being confusing. I think it's Leviticus 18, but the context (or subject) is different from my point. I just wanted to say it was confusing.
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SGT Felicia King
1LT Rosa, I'm not sure why those MPs would be considered 'Special Operations'. It was an assigned detail, those two particular units simply needed a trained female to conduct the searches on Islamic females, that was all. The command just was in charge in sending the best to perform the task. Preferably not a brand new private, but a NCO or SPC(P).
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Ashley i am so sorry for sounding rude mean inconsiderate i really am. I came from an army that did not normally use a women. We did many missions in the jungle and wooded area's. I guess it was a dog eat dog when it came to getting are ass's remotely close to a female soldier, let alone her come to our rescue. Really i commend those females in harms way. I do respect you women now a days. I just put down the way i feel about the situation. Maybe i am thinking of a different place and time.
Lt. Annala Thank you for your service. In respect to my wife and daughter, they know exactly what they say. they have been with me from the get go. They know, believe that. As far as the female soldier evolved in the military, Props. The woman hell make as much money as you want. Big the biggest house you desire, became president. Get on choppers, stop the blood from a wounded soldier. Fly a fighter jet. Be what ever!. Utilize the best of the best to get the job done. BUT and be offended if you want. We are not built the same, And when you are in a covert operation, i am sorry we all ripe differently.
Call me what you will, think of me ill. I don't believe the same as many that are on here. Many wont even back me up thats fine too. But i do respect our female service from the lowest to the highest. You really do have my respect.
Lt. Annala Thank you for your service. In respect to my wife and daughter, they know exactly what they say. they have been with me from the get go. They know, believe that. As far as the female soldier evolved in the military, Props. The woman hell make as much money as you want. Big the biggest house you desire, became president. Get on choppers, stop the blood from a wounded soldier. Fly a fighter jet. Be what ever!. Utilize the best of the best to get the job done. BUT and be offended if you want. We are not built the same, And when you are in a covert operation, i am sorry we all ripe differently.
Call me what you will, think of me ill. I don't believe the same as many that are on here. Many wont even back me up thats fine too. But i do respect our female service from the lowest to the highest. You really do have my respect.
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There are always those special circumstances where we need to be creative in our aproach. The video was impressive. Yet, I still think that you can't treat male and female soldiers truly equal, because if we did the PT test and hight and weight standards should be exactly the same. Until we are willing to do this it's not really equality. However I truly believe that there is a difference between make and femal and therefore it should be addressed accordingly. Thanks for the question.
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Well Gunny Ekblad. I'll just put it like this: My Wife and my 26 year old daughter said. Dad why wont they just let the men be men and the women be women. I say did any females make it through the Army's Ranger School. no Please leave the spc ops alone.
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SGT Edward Perez
Gunny i mean no disrespect to them. The Women doesn't have to stay in the rear with the gear, what i am saying is that some where in war there needs to be a womens touch. specially to the wounded. Every one wants God or their mom. A women. Sir i came from a large family half are females. I wouldnt want them killed humping a ruck. i would rather see them on the front tending to the ones that little comfort and motivation be fore they die, or that by God they make it. I just believed that there is an instinct only a man has, like a women with their young. Men have know I oda what that is, we only can assume what its like. A Spc Ops guy has a instinct that know women knows, they can only imagine. So in my defense i saw the article and i give them super props and a big thank you. But not on the dead of battle front line. We hate to loose even our Sisters in arms way. But i think a female warrior needs to make it home to pass down those genes and stories of how she got to help save a wounded warrior.
I mean no offence to anybody specially to our female service members.
I mean no offence to anybody specially to our female service members.
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Suspended Profile
SGT Edward Perez. Do your wife and daughter have any idea how far women have come over the past few decades . . . our identity is no longer merged into our husband's when we marry . . . we own property in our own name . . . we have far more options than being a teacher, nurse, or secretary . . . we often earn as much as men (in some instances rather more) . . . and quite frankly . . . we have women who can enter and operate covertly in territory totally denied to other special operations personnel . . . and women are just as capable of jcarrying out many covert missions . . . often with a bit more creativity and finesse than traditional heavily armed and armored spec ops brothers. They may change spc ops doctrine. Warmest Regards, Sandy
p.s. You might be surprised how many useful military, technical, intelligence, and operational skills a woman may acquire and employ in the field over the course of her career. There are missions where mixed unit is more effective.
p.s. You might be surprised how many useful military, technical, intelligence, and operational skills a woman may acquire and employ in the field over the course of her career. There are missions where mixed unit is more effective.
SGT Anthony Rossi
I agree with you SGT Perez. There may be a special case but it should be the exception not the standard.
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GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad
Hhmmmm ... me neither ... strange! Thanks for stopping by though Capt (Join to see) ... have a GREAT day!!! :-)
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The FETs & the CSTs could be utilized far more than they were. They have played a little known and highly significant role in Intel collection, and civilian engagement. I have heard talk of them slowing down the recruiting for them because of things winding down, but I personally think that is a mistake.
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Isreali women service with distinction in front-line combat and some special ops roles. Our women in combat have done the same. I've very proud of these US and Isreali women that have served with distinction in those respective armed forces!
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Let me tell you about this over-hyped CST program. It was a disaster. There were a small handful of good things that came out of it but for the most part, it was a failure. I will not go into great detail, but they had more issues and problems than successes. The database that detailed the problems the program had in Afghanistan was absolutely legendary.
I can sum up the CST program with one quote. It came from a petite LT who missed her link up time and she asked a Green Beret tasked with supporting a part of their training....
"Excuse me, excuse me sergeant, I gotta tinkle."
Not to take anything away from some of the women who lost their lives supporting SOF units, it is just that they shouldn't be championing the merits of the program on so few contributions.
I can sum up the CST program with one quote. It came from a petite LT who missed her link up time and she asked a Green Beret tasked with supporting a part of their training....
"Excuse me, excuse me sergeant, I gotta tinkle."
Not to take anything away from some of the women who lost their lives supporting SOF units, it is just that they shouldn't be championing the merits of the program on so few contributions.
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PFC (Join to see)
The only way this crowd would miss me is if they jerk the trigger or their breathing is off.
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1LT William Clardy
PFC (Join to see), I might also miss because my eyes are even more not good than they used to be, but I'd also be worried about the ricochet hazard from that thick skull and long, sloping forehead.
And, for the record, I have been known to announce a need for a tactical tinkle or two, as well as ask my troops if anybody needs to visit Mrs. Murphy before we move out. It's all part of my charming, manly-man persona that I don along with my big-boy panties and jungle boots...
With all that said, I actually would like it if you did go into great (or not-so-great) details about what you see as the actual pluses and minuses of this CST program.
And, for the record, I have been known to announce a need for a tactical tinkle or two, as well as ask my troops if anybody needs to visit Mrs. Murphy before we move out. It's all part of my charming, manly-man persona that I don along with my big-boy panties and jungle boots...
With all that said, I actually would like it if you did go into great (or not-so-great) details about what you see as the actual pluses and minuses of this CST program.
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PFC (Join to see)
Well pull up a chair there young LT and let me spin ya a yarn.
First off, you have to understand that members of the CST work for two organizations, the 75th Ranger Regiment and to SFOD-As doing village stability operations. As a result they are employed differently. In the Rangers, CSTs assist with tactical questioning and searching/controlling women and children on an objective. With the SFOD-As, they assist the detachments in engaging women and children, a population that is normally off limits.
With the Rangers, CSTs are seen as attachments. You walk over to their building, you grab the ones you need for a mission, they stick with the headquarters element for that mission and get to work once the area is secure and you drop them off back in their own little area after the mission. They do this on 90 day cycles.
With SFOD-As, CSTs are embedded with the team, they live with the team, and do everything with the team. They stick with that team for the duration of their 6-9 month deployment.
So the good stuff-The CSTs gave access to a previously restricted population, they made some finds (the 'ol SIM card in a diaper story) and they were an extra helping hand.
The Bad-For the amount of effort it took to train them up, they produced few results that had any real impact. They were a distraction, and a shockingly large number had to be pulled out or sent elsewhere because of inappropriate relationships.
The problems seem to be more centralized to the CSTs supporting VSO missions. It is the opinion of many that the prolonged close relationships built when working in an extremely close group was a major contributing factor. The CSTs with the Rangers were kept separated and had fewer interactions with the their male counterparts.
Some of the other issues lay in who they recruited for the program. Many of the officers were from the Medical Corps, it was believed that nurses and doctors of various disciplines would be able to better support VSO operations. The problem is officers from the Medical Corps tend to have far less experience, especially the ones who had direct commissions to Captain, in dealing with the environment they were put into.
I have worked directly with the CST program. I actually supported it in the beginning but the results just didn't pan out. Especially when you look at the CSTs involved with VSO and how that may impact an Infantry platoon in an isolated COP or firebase.
First off, you have to understand that members of the CST work for two organizations, the 75th Ranger Regiment and to SFOD-As doing village stability operations. As a result they are employed differently. In the Rangers, CSTs assist with tactical questioning and searching/controlling women and children on an objective. With the SFOD-As, they assist the detachments in engaging women and children, a population that is normally off limits.
With the Rangers, CSTs are seen as attachments. You walk over to their building, you grab the ones you need for a mission, they stick with the headquarters element for that mission and get to work once the area is secure and you drop them off back in their own little area after the mission. They do this on 90 day cycles.
With SFOD-As, CSTs are embedded with the team, they live with the team, and do everything with the team. They stick with that team for the duration of their 6-9 month deployment.
So the good stuff-The CSTs gave access to a previously restricted population, they made some finds (the 'ol SIM card in a diaper story) and they were an extra helping hand.
The Bad-For the amount of effort it took to train them up, they produced few results that had any real impact. They were a distraction, and a shockingly large number had to be pulled out or sent elsewhere because of inappropriate relationships.
The problems seem to be more centralized to the CSTs supporting VSO missions. It is the opinion of many that the prolonged close relationships built when working in an extremely close group was a major contributing factor. The CSTs with the Rangers were kept separated and had fewer interactions with the their male counterparts.
Some of the other issues lay in who they recruited for the program. Many of the officers were from the Medical Corps, it was believed that nurses and doctors of various disciplines would be able to better support VSO operations. The problem is officers from the Medical Corps tend to have far less experience, especially the ones who had direct commissions to Captain, in dealing with the environment they were put into.
I have worked directly with the CST program. I actually supported it in the beginning but the results just didn't pan out. Especially when you look at the CSTs involved with VSO and how that may impact an Infantry platoon in an isolated COP or firebase.
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i had a female medic attached to my detachment in Kandahar in 2010, she was awesome and like one of the guys. I really doubt this story about LT White, it sounds like a combat inexperienced female should not have been assigned until she had gotten experience and likely led to her death. Male LTs are not even selected to serve with the 75th until they pass RASP or the Ranger Selection and you cannot even join a team until you have been through the Q course.
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