Posted on Sep 11, 2015
Navy Secretary criticizes Marines' infantry study in interview
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From: Marine Corps Times
Navy Secretary Ray Mabus has doubled down on his assertion that all combat jobs should be opened to women in the wake of a new study showing that all-male Marine control groups outperformed those with women in nearly every infantry task.
Mabus spoke to David Greene at NPR a day after Marine officials revealed findings from a nine-month infantry experiment that assessed the performance of male and female Marine volunteers during physically demanding ground combat tasks. A summary of data showed that mixed-gender teams completed tasks more slowly and shot with less accuracy, and that women sustained injuries at more than twice the rate of their male counterparts.
In his radio interview, Mabus suggested the Marines' study was flawed due to the caliber and mindset of the volunteer participants.
"It started out with a fairly large component of the men thinking 'this is not a good idea,' and 'women will never be able to do this,' " Mabus said. "When you start out with that mindset, you're almost presupposing the outcome."
Mabus also said the Marines could have selected female volunteers who were better suited to the task of marching under heavy loads, which accounted for many of the injuries that were observed.
"For the women that volunteered, probably there should have been a higher bar to cross to get into the experiment," he said.
Female volunteers, except for a small "provisional infantry" group, were required to graduate from the Marines' entry-level enlisted infantry training course and specific combat job schools, if applicable. They also had to get at least a third-class score on the male version of the Marine Corps' Physical Fitness Test, requiring three pullups, 50 crunches in one minute, and a 3-mile run in 28 minutes.
In a Pentagon briefing Thursday, however, officials said the female Marines who volunteered tended to be athletic, with high scores on the PFT and combat fitness tests.
"These were good Marines," said Paul Johnson, the principal investigator for the integrated task force experiment.
Despite the disappointment he expressed with the study, Mabus said it did reveal ways to set entry-level performance standards for each infantry job in order to mitigate injury risks and control for male and female Marines who are likely to execute physical tasks successfully.
"When you look at some of the outside analysis of this from the Center for Naval Analyses, they've looked at these and they've said there are ways to mitigate this so you can have the same combat effectiveness, the same lethality. Which is crucial," Mabus said.
That CNA study has yet to be released publicly.
Mabus' remarks come on the verge of a crucial decision for the Marine Corps: whether to ask to keep certain ground combat jobs closed to women to preserve combat effectiveness, or to move forward with integrating female Marines into every infantry specialty. Commandant Gen. Joseph Dunford has not revealed his thinking on the matter ahead of a final decision. Mabus, however, has been vocal about his plans to work toward full gender integration.
"That's ... my call," he told Military Times this month about the upcoming decision.
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/story/military/2015/09/11/secnav-criticizes-marines-infantry-study-interview/72059308/
Navy Secretary Ray Mabus has doubled down on his assertion that all combat jobs should be opened to women in the wake of a new study showing that all-male Marine control groups outperformed those with women in nearly every infantry task.
Mabus spoke to David Greene at NPR a day after Marine officials revealed findings from a nine-month infantry experiment that assessed the performance of male and female Marine volunteers during physically demanding ground combat tasks. A summary of data showed that mixed-gender teams completed tasks more slowly and shot with less accuracy, and that women sustained injuries at more than twice the rate of their male counterparts.
In his radio interview, Mabus suggested the Marines' study was flawed due to the caliber and mindset of the volunteer participants.
"It started out with a fairly large component of the men thinking 'this is not a good idea,' and 'women will never be able to do this,' " Mabus said. "When you start out with that mindset, you're almost presupposing the outcome."
Mabus also said the Marines could have selected female volunteers who were better suited to the task of marching under heavy loads, which accounted for many of the injuries that were observed.
"For the women that volunteered, probably there should have been a higher bar to cross to get into the experiment," he said.
Female volunteers, except for a small "provisional infantry" group, were required to graduate from the Marines' entry-level enlisted infantry training course and specific combat job schools, if applicable. They also had to get at least a third-class score on the male version of the Marine Corps' Physical Fitness Test, requiring three pullups, 50 crunches in one minute, and a 3-mile run in 28 minutes.
In a Pentagon briefing Thursday, however, officials said the female Marines who volunteered tended to be athletic, with high scores on the PFT and combat fitness tests.
"These were good Marines," said Paul Johnson, the principal investigator for the integrated task force experiment.
Despite the disappointment he expressed with the study, Mabus said it did reveal ways to set entry-level performance standards for each infantry job in order to mitigate injury risks and control for male and female Marines who are likely to execute physical tasks successfully.
"When you look at some of the outside analysis of this from the Center for Naval Analyses, they've looked at these and they've said there are ways to mitigate this so you can have the same combat effectiveness, the same lethality. Which is crucial," Mabus said.
That CNA study has yet to be released publicly.
Mabus' remarks come on the verge of a crucial decision for the Marine Corps: whether to ask to keep certain ground combat jobs closed to women to preserve combat effectiveness, or to move forward with integrating female Marines into every infantry specialty. Commandant Gen. Joseph Dunford has not revealed his thinking on the matter ahead of a final decision. Mabus, however, has been vocal about his plans to work toward full gender integration.
"That's ... my call," he told Military Times this month about the upcoming decision.
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/story/military/2015/09/11/secnav-criticizes-marines-infantry-study-interview/72059308/
Marine Corps
Navy
Infantry
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 28
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He won't have to pay for "his call" IF things don't work out. He needs to listen to the war fighters. I am not against integration when it is smart to do so. But to integrate just to be able to say "I made that happen" (which is how it looks to me), is a bad idea.
Just my opinion.
Just my opinion.
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Suspended Profile
MSgt Erik Copp = my thoughts exactly. If someone can't meet mission readiness without changing the standards, they have no business in that particular mission, irrespective of gender, race, etc... Marine Infantry isn't the only force where this will be an issue. How many women will be able to qualify as SEALS for instance? It took the two women who passed Ranger Basic two or more tries to get through, and UDT is harder than RB...
Let's say I'm concerned. My brother is a career firefighter, and he's seen standards lowered for Affirmative Action, which only endangers the public they serve...
Let's say I'm concerned. My brother is a career firefighter, and he's seen standards lowered for Affirmative Action, which only endangers the public they serve...
PO1 Glenn Boucher
MSgt Erik Copp, your absolutely correct.
Do it properly make sure standards are not changed. Do not do it for political agendas to make people feel good and then in a few years say that "I accomplished that" in a memoir.
Do it properly make sure standards are not changed. Do not do it for political agendas to make people feel good and then in a few years say that "I accomplished that" in a memoir.
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Leave it to the government to "forge ahead" inspite of the facts. Nothing really new here...
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You can't put common sense in the head of a Liberal. It is a subject that is completely foreign to them and makes their heads explode.
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SMSgt David Zobel
PO1 Jerry Sutton - Ok, help me understand your mindset. A cabinet member in Obama 's administration expresses an opinion dripping with partisan prejudice and you think anyone that thinks otherwise should keep their opinion to themselves. Maybe you should reconsider your opinion of your own intellect.
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PO1 Jerry Sutton
SMSgt. I addressed the captains first remarks. You can't put common sense in the head of a Liberal. It is a subject that is completely foreign to them and makes their heads explode. I guess you agree with that. I disagree. Captain, maybe you better check on the deficit and the economy. I think its improved more than fox news admits.
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SFC Charles Temm
PO1 Jerry Sutton - When we look at moves made according to desired outcome rather than reality, one does not have to look far to one political mindset dominates those kind of efforts. You can call people names that don't agree with you but it fails utterly to support whatever argument you were trying to make. Actually the only argument you made was that 2 pols you didn't like had failed to serve or serve properly in your eyes. What does that say about those prezs you obviously support then?
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