Posted on Dec 20, 2024
What is the best way to encourage DMDC to fix their login process?
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I live in Denmark. Two years ago after the new security protocols went into effect I was locked out of HRC. Their login process is run by DMDC. At that time I was finally able to talk to a supervisor who told me they knew their login process was flawed as it would not support call back/ text messaging from all countries, only a select few. At that time I was able to login to VA using ID.me. I could also access DFAS (MY PAY) as they use email confirmation. I can also access SSA using ID.me. My U.S. banks I have no problems, even my state (Idaho) I can access to vote, driver's license . So after two years, what is the problem with DMDC they can not get their I.T. department to fix their system?
I need to access DEERS to upload my wife's SSN, plus I wanted to check some information in my military records, but my account is locked out. After spending over an hour on the phone I was given a way to upload info, but this is not acceptable - I still cannot access my information. I have since written my Congressman in hopes to get some action.
I know if I got problems, other Vets have problems as well, but DMDC does not seem to really care. If they did this would get fixed. If all vets having the same problem would write their Congressman, maybe something might get done.
I need to access DEERS to upload my wife's SSN, plus I wanted to check some information in my military records, but my account is locked out. After spending over an hour on the phone I was given a way to upload info, but this is not acceptable - I still cannot access my information. I have since written my Congressman in hopes to get some action.
I know if I got problems, other Vets have problems as well, but DMDC does not seem to really care. If they did this would get fixed. If all vets having the same problem would write their Congressman, maybe something might get done.
HRC
Department of Veterans Affairs (VA)
Posted 14 d ago
Responses: 3
SGM Mikel Dawson, for complete clarity, from this and other posts, I believe your issue is specifically with the DS Logon (DSL) single sign-on application as DMDC manages multiple authentication methods across DoD and non-DoD partners.
BTW, you don’t have to reestablish your DSL to get your wife added to DEERS (but you will to access your records through milConnect or iPERMS) – do it through the VA*. Go to AskVA (https://ask.va.gov/), sign-in, and create a new inquiry. For category, click on the search icon and choose DEERS from the second page, ‘adding…’ for topic, ‘other’ for reason, and ‘for dependent’ for inquiry).
As to why DoD uses DSL instead of something like ID.me or Login.gov as an alternate access method, it’s because of the DEERS tie-in. While DSL, ID.me, and Login.gov are all Identity Assurance Level 2 (IAL-2) applications, DoD considers the DEERS requirement on DSL to be an added layer of security.
According to the DSL support documentation*, DSL accounts are automatically removed (deactivated) after 180 days of inactivity, and individuals will have to go through the registration process again.
If you haven't tried to reregister, click on "Create Account" from a DS Logon screen and choose either "E-mail Registration" or "Remote Identity Proofing" on the next screen. If you can’t use either of those two methods, then the only way you’ll be able to get it setup is to travel to
• E-mail registration – Takes a bit longer (typically 1-2 days) than Remote Proofing but is a more reliable method. You will only be able to create a DSL account using this method if the email address you're using is already registered in DEERS. If you never registered a non-.mil address and/or don't have access to one that was registered, then you won't be able to complete this method.
• Remote Identity Proofing (RIP) - Faster (~10 minutes if you have everything), but the process is very unforgiving. NOTE: Read through the "Remote Identity Proofing Procedures and Support" section of the DSL support documentation first. RIP is very rigid and if you don't complete the process in one session (WITHOUT timing out), then the ability to use this method is locked-out for 31 days. You’ll still be able to use the e-mail registration process
The RIP process states it requires your U.S. driver's license (which you probably had to trade-in to get your Danish one), but your passport should work as well. It is best to use your mobile phone to go through the RIP process as you’ll have to upload a ‘live’ photo and webcams and the RIP process are like petting cats – sometimes you get a ‘purr’ and sometimes you get the claws.
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On a related note, I would HIGHLY recommend that you pursue the method that most Americans living overseas use when they need to call back to a landline in the states - Switch over to a residential VoIP provider that allows free calls to the U.S. or use one of the many different Internet Phone Service (IPS) companies to make outbound calls to the U.S.
• Residential Voice over IP (VoIP) provider – Normally will replace your home phone service with a and usually has a setup & monthly fee. I don’t know who VoIP providers would be for you in Denmark (TDC? Telenor? Someone else?), but a plan from a U.S. VoIP provider that would offer free international calls to the U.S., free calls in Denmark/EU, etc. would typically be about $25-$30/month.
• IPS to make outbound calls to the U.S. – Companies like Call2Friends, CallCentric, etc. offer options/plans to make free or low-cost calls to the U.S.
Free options usually will have some type of restrictions or aspect that you wouldn’t have with other options. For example, using Call2Friends (call2friends.com), you could make a free call to DMDC from home, but you’d be limited to 60 minutes and could only call once per day (unless you used a different IP address).
Paid options give low-cost calls options without the restrictions (you may have to install software on your computer or mobile phone though). For example, CallCentric (callcentric.com) has a "North America Basic" plan that costs $1.95/month, gives you 120 minutes of outbound calls to the U.S., unlimited to toll-free numbers, and charges $0.0088/minute if you go over those 120 minutes. Alternatively, their 'Pay Per Call' plan is $0/month and would charge you $0.0088/minute for all calls to the U.S. (an hour-long phone call to the DMDC call center would cost you about 53 cents).
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* milConnect – Veterans and DEERS FAQ - https://milconnect.dmdc.osd.mil/milconnect/public/faq/DEERS-Veterans_and_DEERS
* DSL Support documentation and FAQ - https://myaccess.dmdc.osd.mil/identitymanagement/api/data/faqs
BTW, you don’t have to reestablish your DSL to get your wife added to DEERS (but you will to access your records through milConnect or iPERMS) – do it through the VA*. Go to AskVA (https://ask.va.gov/), sign-in, and create a new inquiry. For category, click on the search icon and choose DEERS from the second page, ‘adding…’ for topic, ‘other’ for reason, and ‘for dependent’ for inquiry).
As to why DoD uses DSL instead of something like ID.me or Login.gov as an alternate access method, it’s because of the DEERS tie-in. While DSL, ID.me, and Login.gov are all Identity Assurance Level 2 (IAL-2) applications, DoD considers the DEERS requirement on DSL to be an added layer of security.
According to the DSL support documentation*, DSL accounts are automatically removed (deactivated) after 180 days of inactivity, and individuals will have to go through the registration process again.
If you haven't tried to reregister, click on "Create Account" from a DS Logon screen and choose either "E-mail Registration" or "Remote Identity Proofing" on the next screen. If you can’t use either of those two methods, then the only way you’ll be able to get it setup is to travel to
• E-mail registration – Takes a bit longer (typically 1-2 days) than Remote Proofing but is a more reliable method. You will only be able to create a DSL account using this method if the email address you're using is already registered in DEERS. If you never registered a non-.mil address and/or don't have access to one that was registered, then you won't be able to complete this method.
• Remote Identity Proofing (RIP) - Faster (~10 minutes if you have everything), but the process is very unforgiving. NOTE: Read through the "Remote Identity Proofing Procedures and Support" section of the DSL support documentation first. RIP is very rigid and if you don't complete the process in one session (WITHOUT timing out), then the ability to use this method is locked-out for 31 days. You’ll still be able to use the e-mail registration process
The RIP process states it requires your U.S. driver's license (which you probably had to trade-in to get your Danish one), but your passport should work as well. It is best to use your mobile phone to go through the RIP process as you’ll have to upload a ‘live’ photo and webcams and the RIP process are like petting cats – sometimes you get a ‘purr’ and sometimes you get the claws.
.
.
On a related note, I would HIGHLY recommend that you pursue the method that most Americans living overseas use when they need to call back to a landline in the states - Switch over to a residential VoIP provider that allows free calls to the U.S. or use one of the many different Internet Phone Service (IPS) companies to make outbound calls to the U.S.
• Residential Voice over IP (VoIP) provider – Normally will replace your home phone service with a and usually has a setup & monthly fee. I don’t know who VoIP providers would be for you in Denmark (TDC? Telenor? Someone else?), but a plan from a U.S. VoIP provider that would offer free international calls to the U.S., free calls in Denmark/EU, etc. would typically be about $25-$30/month.
• IPS to make outbound calls to the U.S. – Companies like Call2Friends, CallCentric, etc. offer options/plans to make free or low-cost calls to the U.S.
Free options usually will have some type of restrictions or aspect that you wouldn’t have with other options. For example, using Call2Friends (call2friends.com), you could make a free call to DMDC from home, but you’d be limited to 60 minutes and could only call once per day (unless you used a different IP address).
Paid options give low-cost calls options without the restrictions (you may have to install software on your computer or mobile phone though). For example, CallCentric (callcentric.com) has a "North America Basic" plan that costs $1.95/month, gives you 120 minutes of outbound calls to the U.S., unlimited to toll-free numbers, and charges $0.0088/minute if you go over those 120 minutes. Alternatively, their 'Pay Per Call' plan is $0/month and would charge you $0.0088/minute for all calls to the U.S. (an hour-long phone call to the DMDC call center would cost you about 53 cents).
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* milConnect – Veterans and DEERS FAQ - https://milconnect.dmdc.osd.mil/milconnect/public/faq/DEERS-Veterans_and_DEERS
* DSL Support documentation and FAQ - https://myaccess.dmdc.osd.mil/identitymanagement/api/data/faqs
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COL Randall C.
SGM Mikel Dawson - I can't comment on the information that the support rep gave you, but it is accurate that some countries can't get texts/phone calls from DS Logon (most have no issue). However, that is not a limitation of DS Logon but rather the country you're trying to message having network limitations or regulatory issues that prevent the texts.
I've just looked over the list of countries that are problematic with DS Logon and Denmark isn't on them. If your number is correctly entered into DEERS then there shouldn't be an issue (correctly entered means 45 + your 8 digit Danish phone number (i.e., "45XXXXXXXX") and not "01145XXXXXXXX" or some other format).
If your number isn't entered correctly, or you can't remember what was entered, go through the process I laid out above to get the VA to update your phone number in DEERS. After that, then you shouldn't have an issue getting a text to your mobile or an automated voice verification to your landline (as long as they are correctly entered in DEERS).
If for some reason you can't update it through the VA, or you don't want to wait for them to do it, you can fax or mail the documents to the DEERS Support Office. There are many reliable internet-to-fax companies you can use (Sendfax, iFax, etc.) to send your faxes to a US number for free (without worrying that your information will be stolen).
I don't see it as likely (based on your comments), but did you ever sign-up for a Google Voice number before you left the states?
I've just looked over the list of countries that are problematic with DS Logon and Denmark isn't on them. If your number is correctly entered into DEERS then there shouldn't be an issue (correctly entered means 45 + your 8 digit Danish phone number (i.e., "45XXXXXXXX") and not "01145XXXXXXXX" or some other format).
If your number isn't entered correctly, or you can't remember what was entered, go through the process I laid out above to get the VA to update your phone number in DEERS. After that, then you shouldn't have an issue getting a text to your mobile or an automated voice verification to your landline (as long as they are correctly entered in DEERS).
If for some reason you can't update it through the VA, or you don't want to wait for them to do it, you can fax or mail the documents to the DEERS Support Office. There are many reliable internet-to-fax companies you can use (Sendfax, iFax, etc.) to send your faxes to a US number for free (without worrying that your information will be stolen).
I don't see it as likely (based on your comments), but did you ever sign-up for a Google Voice number before you left the states?
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SGM Mikel Dawson
COL Randall C. - When I called, talked to DMDC, I was able to give them my correct phone number, 45XXXXXXXX, but that number would not work when they tried to call me. She tried several times to rig the system to accept and call, but nothing worked. Will try to get VA to enter the number again and see what happens.
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SGM Mikel Dawson
SGM Mikel Dawson - Sir, was just in on the VA site trying to update my info. I go into update my information, but it will only allow U.S. phone numbers. Now if I go to "Update" my information using a VA Form 10-10EZR, in the contact information part it asks for a ten digit number. Ten digits would equal Denmark's country code 45 plus my eight digit mobile number. So I do this, here is the problem/question? Will the system then add a 45 country code to the ten digit number? If so then it is too many. Will the system correctly at the "011" to only the number I have input, or will it see I am in Denmark, then add the country code? Too many variables for error. On the form it would made sense to have a place for "international " numbers, then there is no confusion. For example: if you go to the VA Form 21-4138 (Jul 2024), in block 6 for telephone number there is a section for "international" number.
Am I seeing there there can be a confusion in the system using VA Form 10-10EZR or is it just me? Also if they had the box on the Update page for international numbers. Some places VA recognize international phone numbers, some places they do not.
Am I seeing there there can be a confusion in the system using VA Form 10-10EZR or is it just me? Also if they had the box on the Update page for international numbers. Some places VA recognize international phone numbers, some places they do not.
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SGM Mikel Dawson
SGM Mikel Dawson - Sir, just came back from a walk and thinking:
2 years ago this all started when I got locked out of VA, using my DoD Login (DMDC). I tried everything. I tried setting up an account with ID.me but it would not take a Danish number as well. So I contacted my State (Idaho) Senator and the Senate Chairman of the VA. After about 5 months a guy called me from ID.me. I explained the problem with the phone number, he stated they had problems with international numbers, but he took the time, I got all the docs he wanted, we did a video call and I got my ID.me account.
Now you have noticed VA has stopped using DoD Login (DMDC). I am not saying my contacting the Senators helped, but something changed.
You stated DoD (DMDC) believes they need a higher level of security. What about DEFAS (My Pay)? They have the same infor DEERS has, yet when I log on, for a security conformation I get a choice : email or phone. Why can't DMDC offer a choice? We all know telephone numbers can be hacked as well as an email. My U.S. Banks also give me a choice. DMDC could also offer a choice: email or phone. Problem solved. Back to VA
I was going to fill out a new VA Form 10-10EZR, online. I got all the way to the personal data part - they ask for ONLY a U.S. phone number. So I stopped as I am not going to screw up any other info. Now when I filled out the 21-4138 (Jul 2024) under section 6 asking for phone number, then they offer an international part, do I just put in the 45 (country code) then my number, or do I put it what they got to dial: 01145xxxxxxxx? Well I put in the 011 as well. Do I assume (which we all know that is a bad word) they know how to access the international line? If the VA was smart, they would for example have a box for the country code then number after then there is no question.
I am not an I.T. guy, just a ex ground pounder and a farrier, just an end user. I know there is a problem, but there is a solution. The easy fix would be DMDC give us a choice of email or phone security verification.
The big problem is not me calling them, I have paid for the calls, the problem is at their end of calling me if it is phone they want. Email would fix everything. VA got it figured out, SSA got things figured out, DEFAS got it figured out, Banks got it figured out. To me this looks like an old fashion "pissing contest" that DMDC has. I have filed a complaint laying this out to the USARC I.G. I have once again written to my State Senator.
Guess will see what happens.
This is not only for me. If I am having a problem, other Vets are having problems access HRC as well. I guess the SGM job of "taking care of soldiers" never dies.
2 years ago this all started when I got locked out of VA, using my DoD Login (DMDC). I tried everything. I tried setting up an account with ID.me but it would not take a Danish number as well. So I contacted my State (Idaho) Senator and the Senate Chairman of the VA. After about 5 months a guy called me from ID.me. I explained the problem with the phone number, he stated they had problems with international numbers, but he took the time, I got all the docs he wanted, we did a video call and I got my ID.me account.
Now you have noticed VA has stopped using DoD Login (DMDC). I am not saying my contacting the Senators helped, but something changed.
You stated DoD (DMDC) believes they need a higher level of security. What about DEFAS (My Pay)? They have the same infor DEERS has, yet when I log on, for a security conformation I get a choice : email or phone. Why can't DMDC offer a choice? We all know telephone numbers can be hacked as well as an email. My U.S. Banks also give me a choice. DMDC could also offer a choice: email or phone. Problem solved. Back to VA
I was going to fill out a new VA Form 10-10EZR, online. I got all the way to the personal data part - they ask for ONLY a U.S. phone number. So I stopped as I am not going to screw up any other info. Now when I filled out the 21-4138 (Jul 2024) under section 6 asking for phone number, then they offer an international part, do I just put in the 45 (country code) then my number, or do I put it what they got to dial: 01145xxxxxxxx? Well I put in the 011 as well. Do I assume (which we all know that is a bad word) they know how to access the international line? If the VA was smart, they would for example have a box for the country code then number after then there is no question.
I am not an I.T. guy, just a ex ground pounder and a farrier, just an end user. I know there is a problem, but there is a solution. The easy fix would be DMDC give us a choice of email or phone security verification.
The big problem is not me calling them, I have paid for the calls, the problem is at their end of calling me if it is phone they want. Email would fix everything. VA got it figured out, SSA got things figured out, DEFAS got it figured out, Banks got it figured out. To me this looks like an old fashion "pissing contest" that DMDC has. I have filed a complaint laying this out to the USARC I.G. I have once again written to my State Senator.
Guess will see what happens.
This is not only for me. If I am having a problem, other Vets are having problems access HRC as well. I guess the SGM job of "taking care of soldiers" never dies.
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The Defense Manpower Data Center (DMDC), responsible for managing access to systems like the Defense Enrollment Eligibility Reporting System (DEERS), has faced criticisms regarding its login and verification processes, particularly for users outside the United States. Here's a breakdown of the ongoing issues and potential steps you might take based on the information available:
Current Issues with DMDC:
Geographical Limitations: The DMDC's system, particularly its callback and text messaging verification, is not universally compatible with international phone networks. As you experienced, the system was not supporting callback or text messaging from all countries, restricting access for users abroad. This issue was acknowledged by a supervisor you spoke with two years ago, but there appears to be no significant update or fix implemented since then.
Access to DEERS: DEERS is vital for updating personal and family member information for benefits and records. Your situation of being locked out and unable to upload your wife's SSN directly into the system highlights ongoing access problems. The workaround you were given for uploading doesn't address the core issue of system access.
General IT System Challenges: Despite the availability of alternative identity verification methods like ID.me for other federal services (VA, SSA), DMDC has not adopted these for its platform. This could be due to system integration issues, security protocols, or other IT-related constraints.
Possible Actions:
Contacting Representatives: You've already taken an important step by writing to your Congressman. Collective action by veterans facing similar issues could amplify the urgency for legislative or administrative intervention. If many veterans voice these concerns, it might push for more immediate action or at least a public acknowledgment of the problem.
Direct Communication with DMDC: Although you've already spent considerable time on the phone, continuing to communicate directly with DMDC, perhaps requesting updates or timelines for fixes, could be beneficial. Sometimes, persistence can lead to escalations within the organization.
Alternative Solutions: Since you've had success with ID.me for other federal services, it might be worth advocating for DMDC to consider integrating similar third-party authentication methods. This could be part of any communication with your representatives or directly with DMDC.
Community Advocacy: Engaging with veteran communities or forums to share experiences and solutions might not only provide support but also gather more collective feedback to present to DMDC or lawmakers.
Conclusion:
The persistence of these issues over two years suggests systemic challenges within DMDC's IT infrastructure or security protocols. While there's no immediate solution within this response, the steps you're taking, like contacting your Congressman, are crucial. If more veterans engage similarly, it might lead to systemic changes or at least acknowledgment and priority for fixes. Keep documenting your interactions and outcomes, as this could be valuable in advocating for change or in helping others navigate similar problems.
Current Issues with DMDC:
Geographical Limitations: The DMDC's system, particularly its callback and text messaging verification, is not universally compatible with international phone networks. As you experienced, the system was not supporting callback or text messaging from all countries, restricting access for users abroad. This issue was acknowledged by a supervisor you spoke with two years ago, but there appears to be no significant update or fix implemented since then.
Access to DEERS: DEERS is vital for updating personal and family member information for benefits and records. Your situation of being locked out and unable to upload your wife's SSN directly into the system highlights ongoing access problems. The workaround you were given for uploading doesn't address the core issue of system access.
General IT System Challenges: Despite the availability of alternative identity verification methods like ID.me for other federal services (VA, SSA), DMDC has not adopted these for its platform. This could be due to system integration issues, security protocols, or other IT-related constraints.
Possible Actions:
Contacting Representatives: You've already taken an important step by writing to your Congressman. Collective action by veterans facing similar issues could amplify the urgency for legislative or administrative intervention. If many veterans voice these concerns, it might push for more immediate action or at least a public acknowledgment of the problem.
Direct Communication with DMDC: Although you've already spent considerable time on the phone, continuing to communicate directly with DMDC, perhaps requesting updates or timelines for fixes, could be beneficial. Sometimes, persistence can lead to escalations within the organization.
Alternative Solutions: Since you've had success with ID.me for other federal services, it might be worth advocating for DMDC to consider integrating similar third-party authentication methods. This could be part of any communication with your representatives or directly with DMDC.
Community Advocacy: Engaging with veteran communities or forums to share experiences and solutions might not only provide support but also gather more collective feedback to present to DMDC or lawmakers.
Conclusion:
The persistence of these issues over two years suggests systemic challenges within DMDC's IT infrastructure or security protocols. While there's no immediate solution within this response, the steps you're taking, like contacting your Congressman, are crucial. If more veterans engage similarly, it might lead to systemic changes or at least acknowledgment and priority for fixes. Keep documenting your interactions and outcomes, as this could be valuable in advocating for change or in helping others navigate similar problems.
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Update on this problem: Today received an email from my State Senator. He has his staff looking into this problem. He has contacted the contacted the Congressional Inquiries Branch of the U.S. Department of Defense for a report on this probem.
I received an email from the USARC I.G. office. "Your case has been referred to the Human Resources Command IG Office for action" I was also provided with the email address for HRC IG office.
With this two prong attack I am hoping DMDC will get off the stick and get their system fixed so Vets can have the access to sites using the Dod Log in. At least the problem is being addressed.
I received an email from the USARC I.G. office. "Your case has been referred to the Human Resources Command IG Office for action" I was also provided with the email address for HRC IG office.
With this two prong attack I am hoping DMDC will get off the stick and get their system fixed so Vets can have the access to sites using the Dod Log in. At least the problem is being addressed.
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