Posted on Nov 20, 2023
Can you transition out of the Army Chaplain Candidate Program into a different MOS or MOS in a different Branch?
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I love the Chaplaincy. The impact you have on a unit is insurmountable and being able to be a light during dark times is a wonderful thing. However, during my candidacy, I have run into some obstacles on the civilian side. I went from enlisted 11B to 2LT 56X on June 6, 2022. I have not been able to find work in Southern California. I have submitted more applications than I can count (last I did was over 250 between Indeed, LinkedIn, Handshake, USAJobs, etc). I just have not been able to find work. I have had my resume reviewed dozens of times by professionals, done mock interviews. They all say that I should be getting responses, interviews, and should not be having as much trouble as I have been having. I have applied for positions I am overqualified, accurately qualified, and underqualified. With a wide variety of fields that are expressed on my resume that I have experience doing. Jobs in ministry, security, outreach, etc., nothing was off limits. I even applied to work at 3 In-N-Out restaurants with a rejection letter from all three. A year and a half, I have not found work. Therefore, I am contemplating 4 options.
First Option: Keep Pursuing Work in Southern California
- Continue to go to Biola University
- Continue to look for work
- Continue to be in the Army Reserve as a Chaplain Candidate
Second Option: Resign My Commission
- Continue to go to Biola University
- Continue to look for work
Third Option: Leave California
- Transfer to Liberty University
- Look for work in other states
- Continue to be in the Army Reserve
Fourth Option: Go Back to Active Duty as an Officer
- Leave the Chaplain Candidate Program
- Transfer to Liberty University and work on Seminary Degree at a slower pace
- Join Active Duty for any Branch depending on opportunity and Branch needs
I am leaning towards the Fourth Option. I have been encouraged to pursue the Fourth Option from my parents and some close mentors. However, before I pursue the Fourth Option, I think it is important that I get as much information first.
Any guidance, recommendations, advice, or doctrine, is greatly appreciated.
Thank you for your time.
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Background:
- Tuition Assistance was not used
- Tri-Care has not been used
- Grad. School was being paid for by Certificate of Deposits for the whole year
Bio:
- Age: 27
Military Service:
- Prior MOS: 11B (OCT 5, 2020 - JUN 5th, 2022)
- Current MOS: 56X (JUN 6th, 2022 - Present)
Education:
- B.A. in Psychology
- A.A. in Mathematics & Physical Sciences
- A.A. in Social & Behavioral Sciences
Testing:
- AFQT Percentile Score: 94
- GT: 128, CL: 128, CO: 129, EL: 128, FA: 129, GM:127, MM:125, OF:128, SC: 129, ST: 129
First Option: Keep Pursuing Work in Southern California
- Continue to go to Biola University
- Continue to look for work
- Continue to be in the Army Reserve as a Chaplain Candidate
Second Option: Resign My Commission
- Continue to go to Biola University
- Continue to look for work
Third Option: Leave California
- Transfer to Liberty University
- Look for work in other states
- Continue to be in the Army Reserve
Fourth Option: Go Back to Active Duty as an Officer
- Leave the Chaplain Candidate Program
- Transfer to Liberty University and work on Seminary Degree at a slower pace
- Join Active Duty for any Branch depending on opportunity and Branch needs
I am leaning towards the Fourth Option. I have been encouraged to pursue the Fourth Option from my parents and some close mentors. However, before I pursue the Fourth Option, I think it is important that I get as much information first.
Any guidance, recommendations, advice, or doctrine, is greatly appreciated.
Thank you for your time.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Background:
- Tuition Assistance was not used
- Tri-Care has not been used
- Grad. School was being paid for by Certificate of Deposits for the whole year
Bio:
- Age: 27
Military Service:
- Prior MOS: 11B (OCT 5, 2020 - JUN 5th, 2022)
- Current MOS: 56X (JUN 6th, 2022 - Present)
Education:
- B.A. in Psychology
- A.A. in Mathematics & Physical Sciences
- A.A. in Social & Behavioral Sciences
Testing:
- AFQT Percentile Score: 94
- GT: 128, CL: 128, CO: 129, EL: 128, FA: 129, GM:127, MM:125, OF:128, SC: 129, ST: 129
56X: Chaplain Candidate
Officer
Military Chaplaincy
Reclass
Branch
Edited 1 y ago
Posted 1 y ago
Responses: 4
Yes you can, but I'm not following why you would consider that option. You didn't indicate that you were having conflicts with your role as a Chaplain candidate in the USAR and your job hunt and (unless there is a conflict) there only appears to be a down-side while pursuing a long-term option.
As a drilling reservist, you're eligible for TRICARE Reserve Select (I'm not sure what your "Tri-care has not been used" referred to .. you don't have it? You haven't had any medical visits?). Unless you have some other medical coverage, that alone should be something that weighs heavily in the "Don't do it" column.
The very first conversation you should have is with your supervisory chaplain to inform them of your challenges and options you are exploring. Best case scenario is that they might have some pertinent advice, resources they can tap into, and/or contacts they can reach out to that might be able to assist (by the way, if you're not networking as part of the 'three-legged stool' of a job search, you're doing a major disservice to yourself). If nothing else, you'll keep your technical chain of command in the loop as you consider your options.
Looking over your options, I assume with options one through three you'll continue to be a full-time graduate student. If not, you'll need authorization from the RC Integration Directorate (DACH-RC) in the Chief of Chaplains office to do so or you'll be at risk of being dropped from the program.
You mentioned that you love the Chaplaincy and are leaning towards going active duty. However you didn't mention continuing the Chaplain Candidate program there (just that you would leave it). Have you talked to an active duty chaplain recruiter*?
I'm skeptical if it's possible (I know that a RC Chaplain needs to have additional requirements met before they can apply ... not sure about someone in the Chaplain Candidate Program though), and would defer to 1LT (Join to see) as he's the resident expert on that. The answer will always be "no" if you don't found out though.
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* USAREC Army Chaplain recruiters - https://recruiting.army.mil/MRB_ReligiousServices/
* AR 165-1 (Army Chaplain Corps Activities) - https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/pdf/web/r165_1.pdf
As a drilling reservist, you're eligible for TRICARE Reserve Select (I'm not sure what your "Tri-care has not been used" referred to .. you don't have it? You haven't had any medical visits?). Unless you have some other medical coverage, that alone should be something that weighs heavily in the "Don't do it" column.
The very first conversation you should have is with your supervisory chaplain to inform them of your challenges and options you are exploring. Best case scenario is that they might have some pertinent advice, resources they can tap into, and/or contacts they can reach out to that might be able to assist (by the way, if you're not networking as part of the 'three-legged stool' of a job search, you're doing a major disservice to yourself). If nothing else, you'll keep your technical chain of command in the loop as you consider your options.
Looking over your options, I assume with options one through three you'll continue to be a full-time graduate student. If not, you'll need authorization from the RC Integration Directorate (DACH-RC) in the Chief of Chaplains office to do so or you'll be at risk of being dropped from the program.
You mentioned that you love the Chaplaincy and are leaning towards going active duty. However you didn't mention continuing the Chaplain Candidate program there (just that you would leave it). Have you talked to an active duty chaplain recruiter*?
I'm skeptical if it's possible (I know that a RC Chaplain needs to have additional requirements met before they can apply ... not sure about someone in the Chaplain Candidate Program though), and would defer to 1LT (Join to see) as he's the resident expert on that. The answer will always be "no" if you don't found out though.
------------------------------------------
* USAREC Army Chaplain recruiters - https://recruiting.army.mil/MRB_ReligiousServices/
* AR 165-1 (Army Chaplain Corps Activities) - https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/pdf/web/r165_1.pdf
This page includes resources for professional who seek a career in chaplaincy.
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1LT (Join to see)
The Chaplain Candidacy program, for all intents and purposes, is like an internship with the Army. It is strictly a part-time thing though, so only guard and reserves. Candidates can exit at any time without repocrussions unless they took tuition assistance.
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PO2 Emma Leigh
Greetings, I am pondering leaving the candidacy program for personal reasons, but I don't want to lose my commission since I've already gone to officer training school. What would be my first steps? On another post I saw that the program manager would have to release me from the program, but that I would be in some sort of limbo. Is this correct? Do I need to talk to a TR or Guard unit first to see what positions they have available? Any help is appreciated!
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COL Randall C.
PO2 Emma Leigh - I was going to suggest you correct your profile to reflect your Navy designator as 1945 (Chaplain Candidate), but then discovered RallyPoint doesn't have that as an option!
The easiest answer is that you should talk to your Program Manager as they would be able to give you the most accurate information. However, I'll give it a shot with some additional info (you're coming from the Navy side and their personnel system is probably as much a mystery as the Army's is to you).
According to OPNAV INSTRUCTION 1120.9B (Appointment of Officers in the Chaplain Corps of the Navy)*, if you don't meet the accession training requirements (i.e., withdraw from the program) then you "will be relieved of any statutory service obligation and Active Duty obligation incurred as a result of accepting an appointment into the CHC and will be separated for cause".
However, the "CNO N1 CNO N1 may recommend, with supporting justification, retention and transfer to another competitive category when that action would be in the best interest of the Navy."
My take regarding the service obligation - if you joined the Navy specifically to enter the Chaplain Candidate Program, then you'll be relieved of any obligation and separated. If you didn't (i.e., enlisted then joined the program), then your initial MSO (8 years) remains and you'll revert back to your previous designation and have to discharge it through the reserve component.
I'll go back to the first comment - talk to your Program Manager as they would be able to give you the most accurate information.
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* OPNAV INSTRUCTION 1120.9B - https://www.secnav.navy.mil/doni/Directives/01000%20Military%20Personnel%20Support/01-100%20General%20Recruiting%20Records/1120.9B%20(OPNAV).pdf
* SECNAV INSTRUCTION 1920.6D - https://www.secnav.navy.mil/doni/Directives/01000%20Military%20Personnel%20Support/01-900%20Military%20Separation%20Services/1920.6D.pdf
* MILPERSMAN 1212-010 - https://www.mynavyhr.navy.mil/Portals/55/Reference/MILPERSMAN/1000/1200Classification/1212-010.pdf?ver=bKTcutXJEWPbXBVlB0vBgA%3D%3D
The easiest answer is that you should talk to your Program Manager as they would be able to give you the most accurate information. However, I'll give it a shot with some additional info (you're coming from the Navy side and their personnel system is probably as much a mystery as the Army's is to you).
According to OPNAV INSTRUCTION 1120.9B (Appointment of Officers in the Chaplain Corps of the Navy)*, if you don't meet the accession training requirements (i.e., withdraw from the program) then you "will be relieved of any statutory service obligation and Active Duty obligation incurred as a result of accepting an appointment into the CHC and will be separated for cause".
However, the "CNO N1 CNO N1 may recommend, with supporting justification, retention and transfer to another competitive category when that action would be in the best interest of the Navy."
My take regarding the service obligation - if you joined the Navy specifically to enter the Chaplain Candidate Program, then you'll be relieved of any obligation and separated. If you didn't (i.e., enlisted then joined the program), then your initial MSO (8 years) remains and you'll revert back to your previous designation and have to discharge it through the reserve component.
I'll go back to the first comment - talk to your Program Manager as they would be able to give you the most accurate information.
---------------------------------------------------
* OPNAV INSTRUCTION 1120.9B - https://www.secnav.navy.mil/doni/Directives/01000%20Military%20Personnel%20Support/01-100%20General%20Recruiting%20Records/1120.9B%20(OPNAV).pdf
* SECNAV INSTRUCTION 1920.6D - https://www.secnav.navy.mil/doni/Directives/01000%20Military%20Personnel%20Support/01-900%20Military%20Separation%20Services/1920.6D.pdf
* MILPERSMAN 1212-010 - https://www.mynavyhr.navy.mil/Portals/55/Reference/MILPERSMAN/1000/1200Classification/1212-010.pdf?ver=bKTcutXJEWPbXBVlB0vBgA%3D%3D
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PO2 Emma Leigh
COL Randall C. Thank you for this! I was AD Navy, then after a super long break I enlisted in AFR then commissioned into CCP. Rally Point doesn't give us the option to list our whole story
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1LT (Join to see) - I'll split this response into two parts. This one will specifically be about TRICARE Reserve Select (TRS) and I'll reply to the rest under the other response.
Bottom line regarding TRS is that you'll be very hard pressed to find any coverage available to you with the scope of coverage and the low costs it has.
Looking at the 2024 costs for you (I assume you don't have a family you're covering) TRS costs a nickel less than $52/month ($623.40/year) in premiums, you'll have a $188 annual deductible before your co-pays/cost shares kick in, and you have a catastrophic cap for $1,256/year (this is the "killer part" that very few plans can touch). See the rate sheet on the co-pay/cost share details for specific providers.
Looking at Biola University's website, your premiums for the Student Health Insurance Plan (SHIP) will be $2,351 for next year ($1,175.50/semester), have an annual deductible of $300 ($450 if you see an out of network providers), and an annual catastrophic cap of $8,000/year. On top of that, the cost shares/co-pays are higher than TRS (unless you are seen at the Student Health center).
To put it more succinctly, even if you paid 100% of your health costs, the MOST you'll pay out of pocket with TRS is $1,879.40 in a year ($623.40 in premiums plus $1,256 for a catastrophic cap). With SHIP, you'll pay $2,351 as a minimum (your premiums) and then add on your co-pays and such on top of that until you get to $8,000 (max out of pocket for the year would be $10,351).
This is obviously assuming you see either network or non-network providers and don't use any that won't accept the insurance. Using Biola University's zip of 90639 on the provider search tool*, there are hundreds of providers within 5 miles that accept TRICARE as an in-network or out-of-network provider.
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* 2024 Costs for TRICARE plans (for TRS, use Group B under TRICARE Select in Table 2) - https://newsroom.tricare.mil/News/TRICARE-News/Article/3582211/know-your-2024-tricare-health-plan-costs
* Biola University SHIP summary of benefits and coverage - https://go.gallagherstudent.com/-/media/files/gsh/universities/5127/scd-4868/20232024-biola-university-summary-of-benefits-and-coverage--domestic-students.pdf
Bottom line regarding TRS is that you'll be very hard pressed to find any coverage available to you with the scope of coverage and the low costs it has.
Looking at the 2024 costs for you (I assume you don't have a family you're covering) TRS costs a nickel less than $52/month ($623.40/year) in premiums, you'll have a $188 annual deductible before your co-pays/cost shares kick in, and you have a catastrophic cap for $1,256/year (this is the "killer part" that very few plans can touch). See the rate sheet on the co-pay/cost share details for specific providers.
Looking at Biola University's website, your premiums for the Student Health Insurance Plan (SHIP) will be $2,351 for next year ($1,175.50/semester), have an annual deductible of $300 ($450 if you see an out of network providers), and an annual catastrophic cap of $8,000/year. On top of that, the cost shares/co-pays are higher than TRS (unless you are seen at the Student Health center).
To put it more succinctly, even if you paid 100% of your health costs, the MOST you'll pay out of pocket with TRS is $1,879.40 in a year ($623.40 in premiums plus $1,256 for a catastrophic cap). With SHIP, you'll pay $2,351 as a minimum (your premiums) and then add on your co-pays and such on top of that until you get to $8,000 (max out of pocket for the year would be $10,351).
This is obviously assuming you see either network or non-network providers and don't use any that won't accept the insurance. Using Biola University's zip of 90639 on the provider search tool*, there are hundreds of providers within 5 miles that accept TRICARE as an in-network or out-of-network provider.
---------------------------------------------
* 2024 Costs for TRICARE plans (for TRS, use Group B under TRICARE Select in Table 2) - https://newsroom.tricare.mil/News/TRICARE-News/Article/3582211/know-your-2024-tricare-health-plan-costs
* Biola University SHIP summary of benefits and coverage - https://go.gallagherstudent.com/-/media/files/gsh/universities/5127/scd-4868/20232024-biola-university-summary-of-benefits-and-coverage--domestic-students.pdf
Know Your 2024 TRICARE Health Plan Costs
With a new year fast approaching, you may see changes to your TRICARE health plan costs starting on Jan. 1, 2024. These costs may include enrollment fees, premiums, cost-shares, and copayments.
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California?! Well, that's your problem right there. Assuming you cannot just up and leave, I may have a creative idea.
I just left VA last month where I paticpated in my endorser's annual conference (The Liberty Baptist Fellowship). While there, I was speaking with one of our endorisng agents and faculty members at Liberty University. I mentioned the difficulty I anticipate in getting employed for my 2 years of pastoral experince as prerequisite to becoming a Chaplain. He was a strong advocate the Clinical Pastoral Education (CPE) there at Liberty and was almost certain that I could enter Liberty's program and get it to count with the Army as my pastoral experience. Maybe this could be an option for you?
If so, that may mean looking into scholarships with Liberty, possibly accepting some TA from the Army, and maybe even acruing a little debt, but it will get you to Chaplaincy. If your meant to minister to troops, then keep at it. God will provide.
I just left VA last month where I paticpated in my endorser's annual conference (The Liberty Baptist Fellowship). While there, I was speaking with one of our endorisng agents and faculty members at Liberty University. I mentioned the difficulty I anticipate in getting employed for my 2 years of pastoral experince as prerequisite to becoming a Chaplain. He was a strong advocate the Clinical Pastoral Education (CPE) there at Liberty and was almost certain that I could enter Liberty's program and get it to count with the Army as my pastoral experience. Maybe this could be an option for you?
If so, that may mean looking into scholarships with Liberty, possibly accepting some TA from the Army, and maybe even acruing a little debt, but it will get you to Chaplaincy. If your meant to minister to troops, then keep at it. God will provide.
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1LT (Join to see)
Yeah I grew up here so it apparently changed a lot since COVID. I am endorsed with IMF and they can do CPE as well, in fact I was gearing up to enroll with them. Just a matter of trying to find work. I am not even done with my 1 semester of my second year and employment has been a monster to deal with.
In the back of my mind, I genuinely believe that California businesses don't value military service at all. Sure I was not Active Duty for very long, but I did a far amount of stuff above my rank. Same thing for Reserves. From Oct 2022 to this Oct, I was acting Chaplain. That was fun to learn on the fly.
In the back of my mind, I genuinely believe that California businesses don't value military service at all. Sure I was not Active Duty for very long, but I did a far amount of stuff above my rank. Same thing for Reserves. From Oct 2022 to this Oct, I was acting Chaplain. That was fun to learn on the fly.
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1LT (Join to see)
1LT (Join to see) The first time I came off active duty, back in '12, I could not find work. I ended up waiting tables for about 6 months, before moving into alcohol sales for about a year. I was making just over minimum wage. I know what it's like man, it's not easy. Whatever your choice, staying connected to the military as a reservist is a smart idea. I've always been able to approach my unit when I needed work. Once, my unit brought me on for two months, simply because I asked for help while looking for my next job.
Even as a candidate, you can help your unit. I just ran multiple ranges and training events this past summer. As candidates and LTs, we're a lot more flexible at the moment.
Even as a candidate, you can help your unit. I just ran multiple ranges and training events this past summer. As candidates and LTs, we're a lot more flexible at the moment.
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