Posted on Jul 22, 2015
Veterans barred from US-built hotels in Germany?
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GRAFENWÖHR, Germany — Some servicemembers and retirees will no longer be able to use an Armed Forces Recreation Center in Garmisch following a recent review of the center’s reservations policies, the military said Tuesday.
The review found that rules on who can stay at the Army’s Installation Management Command-run resort were not being followed and that vacationers who were technically ineligible to stay at the resort were still being allowed to do so. As a result, the Edelweiss Lodge and Resort — a vacation destination popular with U.S. servicemembers — issued an update to its website in June defining eligibility.
Retirees are among the most affected by these guidelines. For example, military retirees not residing in Germany cannot stay at the resort unless they can prove they have spent at least 30 days in Europe. Those retirees living in Germany can stay at the hotel if they have proper tax authorization from a German customs office.
Servicemembers based in the continental United States are also barred from staying at the resort unless they are traveling with a sponsor who lives in Germany or they have been in Europe for longer than a month.
Active-duty personnel serving within U.S. European Command aren’t affected by this update and are still able to use the resort. This eligibility extends to National Guardsmen and reserve troops on active-duty status within EUCOM for more than 30 days.
Resort officials said the change in booking procedures was made in accordance with the Status of Forces Agreement between Germany and U.S. forces stationed here.
“It is an unfortunate development and we’re so sorry this may limit lodging options for servicemembers and retirees visiting Europe,” Clesson D. Allman, general manager of Edelweiss, said in a statement Tuesday. “But we must comply with the SOFA agreement.”
For a detailed breakdown of eligibility, potential vacationers should go to the Edelweiss official website.
http://www.stripes.com/news/some-us-troops-and-veterans-now-barred-from-garmisch-s-edelweiss-resort-1.359019
The review found that rules on who can stay at the Army’s Installation Management Command-run resort were not being followed and that vacationers who were technically ineligible to stay at the resort were still being allowed to do so. As a result, the Edelweiss Lodge and Resort — a vacation destination popular with U.S. servicemembers — issued an update to its website in June defining eligibility.
Retirees are among the most affected by these guidelines. For example, military retirees not residing in Germany cannot stay at the resort unless they can prove they have spent at least 30 days in Europe. Those retirees living in Germany can stay at the hotel if they have proper tax authorization from a German customs office.
Servicemembers based in the continental United States are also barred from staying at the resort unless they are traveling with a sponsor who lives in Germany or they have been in Europe for longer than a month.
Active-duty personnel serving within U.S. European Command aren’t affected by this update and are still able to use the resort. This eligibility extends to National Guardsmen and reserve troops on active-duty status within EUCOM for more than 30 days.
Resort officials said the change in booking procedures was made in accordance with the Status of Forces Agreement between Germany and U.S. forces stationed here.
“It is an unfortunate development and we’re so sorry this may limit lodging options for servicemembers and retirees visiting Europe,” Clesson D. Allman, general manager of Edelweiss, said in a statement Tuesday. “But we must comply with the SOFA agreement.”
For a detailed breakdown of eligibility, potential vacationers should go to the Edelweiss official website.
http://www.stripes.com/news/some-us-troops-and-veterans-now-barred-from-garmisch-s-edelweiss-resort-1.359019
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 24
Currently living in Italy, I can say firsthand that SOFA agreements are a part of daily life, for better and for worse. Many of these agreements were fashioned decades ago, looking to form an agreement where we could happily coexist among our host nation's citizens. The problems is that times have changed drastically. For example, the SOFA here in Italy says that dependents are not allowed to work on the Italian economy, or to provide services for profit, as it detracts from the ability of the locals to sell their services. Women have been threatened with deportation for things as simple as babysitting another American's children, cutting hair, or continuing their home sales businesses. In the case where a spouse has a legitimate work from home position in an established company, some spouses fight for a year or more to obtain a work visa, and then are denied their on base privileges like health care and commissary access because they are not here on the mission visa with their sponsor.
So why not just renegotiate the SOFA? Unfortunately, the military members and majority of the spouses stand to lose a lot more. In the case of Italy, they have said upfront that a renegotiation would remove the paragraphs that allow us to skip paying many of the taxes that Italian residents face, such as car registration "road tax," a tax on each television in the home, and really, taxes on just about every other thing you can imagine as the economy keeps falling into a deeper hole here.
I imagine Germany's SOFA agreement is a similar situation. While their economy is doing much better than Italy's, Germany is known for making everything work to their benefit (can you blame them?). I imagine that the situation is being investigated, but at this point, a renegotiation of the SOFA, simply for veterans to be able to stay at the resort, would result in our service members losing even more overall.
I try to stay objective when I think about these things. Can you even imagine Germany having their own resort at Disney World in Florida? We are pretty lucky that we have access to Edelweiss at all!
So why not just renegotiate the SOFA? Unfortunately, the military members and majority of the spouses stand to lose a lot more. In the case of Italy, they have said upfront that a renegotiation would remove the paragraphs that allow us to skip paying many of the taxes that Italian residents face, such as car registration "road tax," a tax on each television in the home, and really, taxes on just about every other thing you can imagine as the economy keeps falling into a deeper hole here.
I imagine Germany's SOFA agreement is a similar situation. While their economy is doing much better than Italy's, Germany is known for making everything work to their benefit (can you blame them?). I imagine that the situation is being investigated, but at this point, a renegotiation of the SOFA, simply for veterans to be able to stay at the resort, would result in our service members losing even more overall.
I try to stay objective when I think about these things. Can you even imagine Germany having their own resort at Disney World in Florida? We are pretty lucky that we have access to Edelweiss at all!
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SGM (Join to see)
TSGT Spicer, thanks for your comments. Very familiar with SOFA in Italy, Germany, etc.
Still have my "Sojourno permito" from Italy..which always seemed a bit odd to require of a soldier. Dodging taxes and finding a job are national sports in Italy! Relatively recent revisions to the SOFAs in Europe, particularly Germany, changed the nature of many positions, even a Boy Scout professional to a contractor so that they could be taxed. We somehow "agreed" to many provisions. Meanwhile, I am still searching for that Peace Dividend we heard so much about that seems to have vanished...I know from closing out a based in Europe that we spent far more to close it than we saved in the first five years.
Still have my "Sojourno permito" from Italy..which always seemed a bit odd to require of a soldier. Dodging taxes and finding a job are national sports in Italy! Relatively recent revisions to the SOFAs in Europe, particularly Germany, changed the nature of many positions, even a Boy Scout professional to a contractor so that they could be taxed. We somehow "agreed" to many provisions. Meanwhile, I am still searching for that Peace Dividend we heard so much about that seems to have vanished...I know from closing out a based in Europe that we spent far more to close it than we saved in the first five years.
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TSgt (Join to see)
I definitely hate the politics of it, and on a personal level, I don't agree with it. However, seeing how negotiations in our OWN country often work out relating to taxes and other conditions for our OWN people, I can only imagine what happens at the table when we are negotiating with a country who sees us as "Entitled Americans with money to spend." I have to think that the things we give up (like Edelweiss for Vets) come after hours of hashing out what we truly need to maintain our military capabilities on this side of the world. Unfortunately, that usually means that the extras we enjoy in our homeland become something we look forward to when we return. Mission first, people when it works out! :)
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COL Jean (John) F. B.
TSgt (Join to see) - Having spent 3 years in Naples, I know the SOFA is not necessarily "US friendly", however, it is generally better than those in many countries where US personnel are assigned. Renegotiating the SOFA is difficult, at best, and it is exasperated by the fact that it is accomplished by the State Department, not DoD, and there is not a lot of impetuous to do so by that Department, especially under the current administration.
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MSG D Cebo
But Remember they lost the war we safe some of this country they Agree for us to stay and help so they don't fall to communist hands, the problem is the SOFA issss OLD AND MOST BE REVIEW as Veterans we earn that so is the same they can come to USA and uses our hotels etc, paying double tax Ask me I do During the time 1999 and down I used to go to the commissary in Fort Clayton And use the Ft Sherman facilities every time I visit my mother in Panama never encounter this problem, like I said before the Sofa must be Review with no monetary intent just two friendly country solving and getting to an agreement beside we are a NATO allies hope is fix...
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SGM (Join to see) - SOFAs are negotiated by the Department of State, not DoD, and, therefore, there is no impetuous to renegotiate them where they would be more favorable to military personnel or their family members.
When I was assigned to the USAREUR Provost Marshal Office, SOFA/Customs fell under my responsibility. I routinely got calls from irate military retirees because of the rules (taxes required to be paid on commissary purchases, inability to use APO, etc., etc.). A typical call was, "I can shop in the commissary at Ft Bragg, why can't I in Germany?" Of course, they did not like the answer that I gave them, which was that they chose to live in a foreign country and that they are required to live by that country's laws and any agreements between that country and the US, as it pertained to military personnel and their family members, as well as retirees and their family members.
I got complaints from members of the Army Reserve in Germany about not being allowed in the commissary except during certain times and, then, having to pay taxes on purchases, IAW the SOFA. I told them that, if I were them, I would simply wear my uniform to the commissary and PX. In that way, the ID card was not checked and nobody would question if they were active or reserve.
One day, one of my Military Customs supervisors came to see me to inform me that they were going to apprehend an Air Force major from SHAPE HQ when he showed up at the Heidelberg PX to pick up a bicycle he had ordered. The SOFA did not allow a military member assigned outside of Germany to purchase items in AAFES facilities in Germany. Apparently, the AAFES bike shop in Heidelberg carried a certain bike that the major could not get in Belgium, so he ordered it and was going to pick it up. During a routine check of sales slips/order forms by my Customs folks, they noticed the "violation" and were going to apprehend him when he showed up to pick up the bike. I, of course, told them that they would not apprehend the major (as I thought it was dumb, even if it was IAW the SOFA), but I did not want to be on record of violating the law or telling them to disregard the law. What I did was call the major and explain the situation to him. I purchased the bike for him and he picked it up at my house. There is always a way to get things done, if you really want to help people.
I did find that the German Customs folks were very reasonable and I was able to get them to grant a great many "exceptions" to the SOFA, to include blanket exceptions for certain things. For example, we got blanket exceptions for military family members to use AAFES, Commissary, medical and other facilities in Germany (and Italy) when their sponsors were deployed or TDY. Technically, they were not authorized to use those facilities if the sponsors were assigned out of the country for any reason (to include temporary duty, leave, etc.).
I met with the German Customs Minister in Bonn one day and mentioned that my Customs folks seemed to have more difficulty getting exceptions from his folks than I had getting them from him. He asked me to come to the window and look outside. From his window, we could see the US Embassy and the US flag flying. He stated that he had grown up during WWII and had seen what the US had done to help Germany after the war. He said that, when he had a decision to make that could go either way, he would go to his window and look at the flag and decide in favor of the US. He said that his folks, most of whom were much younger than him, had no such "love" for the US and its military members. He told me that I could always call him to get a favorable response to our requests, which I did, when appropriate.
When I was assigned to the USAREUR Provost Marshal Office, SOFA/Customs fell under my responsibility. I routinely got calls from irate military retirees because of the rules (taxes required to be paid on commissary purchases, inability to use APO, etc., etc.). A typical call was, "I can shop in the commissary at Ft Bragg, why can't I in Germany?" Of course, they did not like the answer that I gave them, which was that they chose to live in a foreign country and that they are required to live by that country's laws and any agreements between that country and the US, as it pertained to military personnel and their family members, as well as retirees and their family members.
I got complaints from members of the Army Reserve in Germany about not being allowed in the commissary except during certain times and, then, having to pay taxes on purchases, IAW the SOFA. I told them that, if I were them, I would simply wear my uniform to the commissary and PX. In that way, the ID card was not checked and nobody would question if they were active or reserve.
One day, one of my Military Customs supervisors came to see me to inform me that they were going to apprehend an Air Force major from SHAPE HQ when he showed up at the Heidelberg PX to pick up a bicycle he had ordered. The SOFA did not allow a military member assigned outside of Germany to purchase items in AAFES facilities in Germany. Apparently, the AAFES bike shop in Heidelberg carried a certain bike that the major could not get in Belgium, so he ordered it and was going to pick it up. During a routine check of sales slips/order forms by my Customs folks, they noticed the "violation" and were going to apprehend him when he showed up to pick up the bike. I, of course, told them that they would not apprehend the major (as I thought it was dumb, even if it was IAW the SOFA), but I did not want to be on record of violating the law or telling them to disregard the law. What I did was call the major and explain the situation to him. I purchased the bike for him and he picked it up at my house. There is always a way to get things done, if you really want to help people.
I did find that the German Customs folks were very reasonable and I was able to get them to grant a great many "exceptions" to the SOFA, to include blanket exceptions for certain things. For example, we got blanket exceptions for military family members to use AAFES, Commissary, medical and other facilities in Germany (and Italy) when their sponsors were deployed or TDY. Technically, they were not authorized to use those facilities if the sponsors were assigned out of the country for any reason (to include temporary duty, leave, etc.).
I met with the German Customs Minister in Bonn one day and mentioned that my Customs folks seemed to have more difficulty getting exceptions from his folks than I had getting them from him. He asked me to come to the window and look outside. From his window, we could see the US Embassy and the US flag flying. He stated that he had grown up during WWII and had seen what the US had done to help Germany after the war. He said that, when he had a decision to make that could go either way, he would go to his window and look at the flag and decide in favor of the US. He said that his folks, most of whom were much younger than him, had no such "love" for the US and its military members. He told me that I could always call him to get a favorable response to our requests, which I did, when appropriate.
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MAJ (Join to see)
Sir: Yes, SOFA negotiation is led by DoS.....but we can't just pass the buck and blame them, as DoD----especially the COCOM and OSD-P----play such an outsized role in all things related to SOFAs.
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COL Jean (John) F. B.
MAJ (Join to see) - I agree with you, to an extent.
I have a lot of experience in dealing with SOFA issues, to include negotiations to make changes, in Germany, Korea, and the CENTCOM AOR. My experience is that the DOS make it more difficult than it should be and has veto power over what DoD wants to do.
I see that you are in Ankara. I was not very involved in SOFA issues for that AOR when I was the XO to the Chief of Staff, AFSOUTH, but I am aware of some of the things that were happening in that regard, as a result of briefings to the CINC and COS that I attended as a "horse-holder". I noticed, from the comments in those briefings, as well, that the DOS seemed to be hard to deal with and were throwing monkey wrenches into the process.
Things may be different now, but I doubt it.
I have a lot of experience in dealing with SOFA issues, to include negotiations to make changes, in Germany, Korea, and the CENTCOM AOR. My experience is that the DOS make it more difficult than it should be and has veto power over what DoD wants to do.
I see that you are in Ankara. I was not very involved in SOFA issues for that AOR when I was the XO to the Chief of Staff, AFSOUTH, but I am aware of some of the things that were happening in that regard, as a result of briefings to the CINC and COS that I attended as a "horse-holder". I noticed, from the comments in those briefings, as well, that the DOS seemed to be hard to deal with and were throwing monkey wrenches into the process.
Things may be different now, but I doubt it.
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MAJ (Join to see)
Sir: great comments. I do think most DoD types find DoS types hard to work with, as our organizational cultures are so very different. I've witnessed a fair share of DoS-DoD negotiation with foreign governments, and I think it is generally good that doS "throws monkey wrenches" into the process, as all too often DoD types are intensely focused on what they want and lack the global understanding of how their one pet project or desire impacts US policy and U.S. Foreign relations on a global scale.
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No bueno. Travelling this big blue marble as a retired vet is top on the list and I would have tried to stay there. I'll head towards te pacific and leave Germany off the list. I planned on staying at that very resort.
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SGT Michael Glenn
Having lived in Germany for 24 years I can tell everyone that places like this are over rated and over priced. Savy is key to traveling Europe and coming home with money still in the bank and many memorable memories. Pensions are available to all travelers and can easily be found every where, not only in Germany. People rent their houses or rooms out to travelers for mere pennies, the normal cost around Bodensee ( Lake of Constance) is around 40 Euro per day and includes hearty breakfast and shower. Applying for a international drivers License here, will allow you to rent and drive a vehicle there, rates are very competitive with prices here. Who needs these rip off establishments to enjoy Europe anyways???
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