Posted on Oct 30, 2021
351M or MI Officer? What is the better career path?
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I want to transition to 35M after my first contract is complete. I have all the scores necessary to get it, however I know I don't want to stay enlisted. I want to make my way into either warrant officer as 351M or use the green to gold program, and hopefully get selected for the MI field. I want to know what the day-to-day lives of both are like, and any other relevant information to help me make a decision for my wife and I. I plan to stay in at least 20 years, maybe more.
Posted in these groups: 
351M: Human Intelligence Collection Technician
35M: Human Intelligence Collector
351M: Human Intelligence Collection Technician 35M: Human Intelligence Collector
Posted 3 y ago
Responses: 6
Thats a lot of wants there. Its not as simple as reclassing to 35M anymore like it used to be. You will first need to successfully complete DLI prior to attending the 35M AIT. I can assure you that making it to 351M is not as simple as it seems. You will need at a minimum 6 years experience as a 35M with at least 1 assignment in an operational strategic unit or two consecutive units that have an active HUMINT mission which right now stands at 3 locations, Hawaii, Korea, and Europe.
In terms of officers, MI is one of the most competitive branches to get not to mention actually getting selected into the G2G program. If you want to enter the MI field, look for an MOS that has a continuous mission like All-source or SIGINT/GEOINT.
HUMINT is not as prevalent as it once was.
In terms of officers, MI is one of the most competitive branches to get not to mention actually getting selected into the G2G program. If you want to enter the MI field, look for an MOS that has a continuous mission like All-source or SIGINT/GEOINT.
HUMINT is not as prevalent as it once was.
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SPC Nolan Nartatez
And that's precisely why I asked here! I don't have a lot of information regarding how to make either of those goals possible. Based on another response, it seems like 35M is the more attainable option here, and as you mentioned, the various steps it'll take to eventually become 351M aren't exactly quick. I'm not expecting a fast or easy transition and more than willing to do everything it takes. Especially doing to DLI, as I've taken the DLAB and scored 120 and very excited to see what language I would be assigned to. Thankfully I'm very interested in Korean language and culture as well!
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SSG (Join to see)
Well, good luck with everything. Remember, it has to be an under strength MOS before you can enter it, right now, they are at strength SPC Nolan Nartatez
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SFC Casey O'Mally
SPC Nolan Nartatez - And just as a warning, I re-classed into 35M with every intention of joining the Warrant Officer corps. You can see the rank I retried at has no "W" in it. Due to personality conflicts with the one specific (and very influential) Warrant at my first unit after re-class I found it impossible to get any type of Warrant endorsement. Personally, I think the warrant was at fault and a horrible excuse for an Army Leader. But, then again, that is why our personalities conflicted. And everyone else seemed to think he was the best thing since Betty White, which means that I must accept that I was at least partially at fault, myself.
Either way, my hopes of going warrant were pretty much crushed for 5 years - and at that point I was too old / seasoned and would have required too many waivers. So if that is your plan, always remember that it may take time to get into the WO corps. And even with time, there is no guarantee. So make sure 35M is something you are willing to do long-term while you continue to work for that accession.
Either way, my hopes of going warrant were pretty much crushed for 5 years - and at that point I was too old / seasoned and would have required too many waivers. So if that is your plan, always remember that it may take time to get into the WO corps. And even with time, there is no guarantee. So make sure 35M is something you are willing to do long-term while you continue to work for that accession.
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SPC Nolan Nartatez
SFC Casey O'Mally thanks for the reply!
Yes, based on the research I've done on the MOS, it seems like something I'll quite enjoy. As I've mentioned above, I'm currently 11B (97 ASVAB score, but prior service so options were limited coming back in). So I will have 3 years or so to communicate with current 35M and 351M servicemembers and figure out for sure if it's what I want. As far as I can tell from here and now, 35M is something I'll enjoy long term, even if I don't end up going Warrant in that field. Thank you for your input!
Yes, based on the research I've done on the MOS, it seems like something I'll quite enjoy. As I've mentioned above, I'm currently 11B (97 ASVAB score, but prior service so options were limited coming back in). So I will have 3 years or so to communicate with current 35M and 351M servicemembers and figure out for sure if it's what I want. As far as I can tell from here and now, 35M is something I'll enjoy long term, even if I don't end up going Warrant in that field. Thank you for your input!
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Yeah... You're definitely putting the cart before the horse here.
First, you're not going to move into 351M if you're not a 35M, and there is no guarantee that you can reclass into 35M. There are many, many, many variables that go into what you can reclass into during your enlistment. Bottom line, the Army wants to move you from an over strength to an under strength MOS. If you aren't over strength and your requested MOS isn't under strength at the time of your request, you're going to face significant hurdles.
Second, you don't get to pick your branch when you commission. You put a list of preferences on a piece of paper, but the Army decides where you will go. Whether you go the OCS route or Green to Gold ROTC route, you'll find that the Army makes the decision to which branch you move to. Infantry and MI are the two most requested branches, so unless you are ahead of your peers in PT, GPA, and every other measurable metric, you probably aren't going to be an MI officer.
First, you're not going to move into 351M if you're not a 35M, and there is no guarantee that you can reclass into 35M. There are many, many, many variables that go into what you can reclass into during your enlistment. Bottom line, the Army wants to move you from an over strength to an under strength MOS. If you aren't over strength and your requested MOS isn't under strength at the time of your request, you're going to face significant hurdles.
Second, you don't get to pick your branch when you commission. You put a list of preferences on a piece of paper, but the Army decides where you will go. Whether you go the OCS route or Green to Gold ROTC route, you'll find that the Army makes the decision to which branch you move to. Infantry and MI are the two most requested branches, so unless you are ahead of your peers in PT, GPA, and every other measurable metric, you probably aren't going to be an MI officer.
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SPC Nolan Nartatez
Thank you for your responses! I heard about how officers were selected for branches a little bit, but didn't have any definite information. So, thank you for clarifying that. As for the hurdles of reclassing, I'm currently 11B, with a 97 ASVAB and a 120 DLAB. PT scores are pretty high up there, just struggling a bit with the 2-mile. Is there anything you'd suggest to increase my chances of successfully reclassing to 35M at the end of this contract?
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SFC (Join to see)
SPC Nolan Nartatez none of that has any bearing on whether or not you can reclass into a certain MOS. There are three things to consider when reclassing:
Do you meet the prerequisites?
Do the strengths support it?
Are there class seats available?
You meet the qualifications, but if that MOS isn't more under strength than you current MOS or there are no available class seats at the time you request to reenlist, then the answer is no. It doesn't matter what your PT score is, if you're commander is really behind you doing it, if the CSM has a friend that works at the school house, etc. You can't affect the second and third things, you can only keep an open mind and be willing to accept other options.
Do you meet the prerequisites?
Do the strengths support it?
Are there class seats available?
You meet the qualifications, but if that MOS isn't more under strength than you current MOS or there are no available class seats at the time you request to reenlist, then the answer is no. It doesn't matter what your PT score is, if you're commander is really behind you doing it, if the CSM has a friend that works at the school house, etc. You can't affect the second and third things, you can only keep an open mind and be willing to accept other options.
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SPC Nolan Nartatez
SFC (Join to see) is there any way I can look into those variables to help determine the likelihood of obtaining a slot?
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SFC (Join to see)
SPC Nolan Nartatez
Do you meet the prerequisites? Look on Armyreenlistment and go to the link for the DA Pam 611-21, go to chapter 10C and find your MOS.
Does it meet the strengths? Go to Armyreenlistment and open the In/Out calls. Your MOS must be over strength and the one you want must be under strength if you are reclassing out side your reenlistment window. If you're in your reenlistment window then the one you request must not be over strength at your grade. If you're picking one of the MOS's listed at the top of the In/Out calls those rules don't apply. 35L is one of those.
Is there a class seat? Only your Career Counselor can look that up for you. There are a few MOSs that always have seats, several that will usually have a few pop up, and most that will rarely or not have a seat pop up. The MOS's listed at the top of the In/Out calls will almost always have seats.
Do you meet the prerequisites? Look on Armyreenlistment and go to the link for the DA Pam 611-21, go to chapter 10C and find your MOS.
Does it meet the strengths? Go to Armyreenlistment and open the In/Out calls. Your MOS must be over strength and the one you want must be under strength if you are reclassing out side your reenlistment window. If you're in your reenlistment window then the one you request must not be over strength at your grade. If you're picking one of the MOS's listed at the top of the In/Out calls those rules don't apply. 35L is one of those.
Is there a class seat? Only your Career Counselor can look that up for you. There are a few MOSs that always have seats, several that will usually have a few pop up, and most that will rarely or not have a seat pop up. The MOS's listed at the top of the In/Out calls will almost always have seats.
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It really depends on what you want to do. If you really want to do the specific Human Intelligence stuff, go Warrant. MI Officers are, generally speaking, generalists not specialists.
Additionally, the farther up the Officer chain you go, the more removed you will be from the specifics of that field. MI LTCs do almost nothing with actual intelligence. CW5s are actively involved with intel collection and analysis everyday.
MI LTCs oversee BDE S2s, who advise BDE Commanders and focus BN S2s who advise BN Commanders and issue collection focus to Companies and attached assets who do the actual collection. A LTC is almost always going to be *at least* 2 steps - if not 4 - from the actual intelligence collection and collation. Even within the G2, the LTC is directing CPTs who are telling NCOs what to actually do. Sure, the LTC is providing the focus and guidance, but is not doing actual intel work, or even directly supervising it.
Whereas Warrants are generally not out there doing interrogations or collections - but they could be from time to time, even the CW5s. And the majority of the time when they are directing others, it is a direct line from Chief to collector, or *maybe* one or *at most* two steps removed.
Finally, an MI Officer is more focused on POLICY; an MI Warrant is more focused on PROCEDURE. Officers tell you WHAT to do, Warrants tell you HOW to do it.
Additionally, the farther up the Officer chain you go, the more removed you will be from the specifics of that field. MI LTCs do almost nothing with actual intelligence. CW5s are actively involved with intel collection and analysis everyday.
MI LTCs oversee BDE S2s, who advise BDE Commanders and focus BN S2s who advise BN Commanders and issue collection focus to Companies and attached assets who do the actual collection. A LTC is almost always going to be *at least* 2 steps - if not 4 - from the actual intelligence collection and collation. Even within the G2, the LTC is directing CPTs who are telling NCOs what to actually do. Sure, the LTC is providing the focus and guidance, but is not doing actual intel work, or even directly supervising it.
Whereas Warrants are generally not out there doing interrogations or collections - but they could be from time to time, even the CW5s. And the majority of the time when they are directing others, it is a direct line from Chief to collector, or *maybe* one or *at most* two steps removed.
Finally, an MI Officer is more focused on POLICY; an MI Warrant is more focused on PROCEDURE. Officers tell you WHAT to do, Warrants tell you HOW to do it.
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SPC Nolan Nartatez
Now that's the kind of answer I was looking for! Thank you so much for making that very clear. Based on the responses here, I believe the route I will stride for is Warrant Officer. It sound like something I'll actually enjoy doing, and probably be better at vs generally directing assets. I was hoping MI officers would be a little more involved!
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SFC Casey O'Mally
Well, to be clear, as a young MI LT you will likely be a MI Platoon Leader OR an Assistant S2 in a BN S2 shop. In either of those positions you will be very integrated into directing collection and analysis. You may also be doing synthesis and meta-analysis (anylyzing analysis - figuring out what we know and what we need to know). As a CPT you would likely be a BN S2 or a BDE Assistant S2 (likely - there are planty of other MI Officer jobs, these are just the *common* ones), which would be knee deep in directing assets, figuring out coverage gaps and acquiring / allocating assets to fill those gaps, etc.
Company grade MI Officers are, generally, not *quite* in the thick of it (that will ALWAYS be enlisted, in pretty much every non-aviation MOS), but they can definitely *see* the thick of it, and even wade in from time to time. It is the field grades and beyond that get more and more removed.
I don't want you to think MI Officers never get that experience, they do. It just gets more distant with rank. With Warrants, it *can* get more distant with rank, but, generally speaking, it always stays closer to the action than a comparable Officer.
Company grade MI Officers are, generally, not *quite* in the thick of it (that will ALWAYS be enlisted, in pretty much every non-aviation MOS), but they can definitely *see* the thick of it, and even wade in from time to time. It is the field grades and beyond that get more and more removed.
I don't want you to think MI Officers never get that experience, they do. It just gets more distant with rank. With Warrants, it *can* get more distant with rank, but, generally speaking, it always stays closer to the action than a comparable Officer.
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SPC Nolan Nartatez
SFC Casey O'Mally That makes sense! Yes, warrant still sounds likely the route I'd prefer pursuing. Thanks so much for the input!
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