Are NCOs losing authority in the new "WHY" Army?

I feel the need to become that NCO to bring the standards and discipline back, I welcome new privates into my Unit very often, that show the discipline and know the standard, the respect and love for what they are doing, then I welcome a Specialist or a Junior NCO and can immediately pick on the disregard for discipline and lack of respect. At what point are we losing the discipline? Is one person doing spot checks enough? are we afraid to tactfully spot check up?

SGT Jesse Walton you are on point in this discussion forum. The standard setting is done by the higher ranking person who ignores behavior and then says nothing to the Soldier in question. Recalling that the battlefield is not a negotiating area, the same standard should be held in garrison. Explain yes, if need be, but not everything is negotiable.

SFC John Birks that commander was wrong. Being blown off by that commander shows a lack of respect on her part. Working in a unit where emotions seem to run high on a weekly basis, the Soldiers use their medical diagnoses as an excuse. I support my NCOs in every way in handling these unruly Soldiers, and in would hope that everyone else would as well.

CSM I have a question? I'm a pv2 in the army getting ready to leave and start my career but I am wondering the rank structure of a ssg and a sfc because I was ordered by a sfc to do something and a ssg overthrew his order how do I respond to that because growing up with my family being prior service I was told if you out rank someone that's who you listen to and also to add to that thought we have platoon sgts/ drill sgts and she is a 2nd platoon sgt/drill sgt and the sfc is a 1st platoon platoon sgt/ drill sgt I'm in 1st platoon as well

Cant speak to Army but in the AF junior NCOs have lost stature over the last 10-15 years. With promotion rates up to 20% at times junior enlisted began, and probably still do, to fell that SSgt (E-5) was becoming just like E-4 and it was just a matter of doing your time. With the promotion rates being so high the "skill-sets" and "knowledge base" that was previously required to enter the NCO tier was drastically eroded with some folks making NCO before the ink in their training folders had even dried. Although I understand why the promotion rates we increased and value of using it as a retention tool the reality is it has just created what is essentially an E4 and E4.2 rank with there being little to no difference in the skill, experience, or knowledge level between a junior enlisted and a junior NCO initially.....this does level out somewhat by E6 but the trickle effect of it can still be seen up into the SNCO tier in some places...I actually once had a MSgt (E-7) promotee that had never been an NCOIC or written an EPR.....good on them for being an efficient test taker ...but they were most definitely not ready for the rank and position they found themselves in . All this being said I have been out for 3 years....so this sight picture may be a little old...but i have a feeling it's still on target.

MSG El Sar I never needed a CSM or officer to empower me. The standards are the standards. Leaders can add to, but not take away. I have worked for some real shitbirds and I never lowered the Army standard and enforced it as such. I have corrected officers (respectfully) and have smoked me some PVTs.

As an NCO you have a Creed that we live by. If you wait to be empowered by somebody over you, you have already lost control.

^^ This may never get to the intended person but bear in mind the statement "you can add to, but not take away" in concern with standards is contradictory. There are many instances where adding standards to existing policy then contradicts current standards. So at that point, you are actually taking away from the original standard. You can even go as far as saying as this is a form of toxic leadership thinking. Commander's are the only ones who can augment standards to suit certain mission requirements. NCO's should keep this in mind before using this statement like a mantra.

SSG Robert Webster I'm assuming that you're insinuating that, because aviation works more like an actual business, somehow I'm lax in my approach to my job. So without getting too offended at that, let me say this... I put great pride in what I do at work, the same way I put a great amount of pride into everything I do. I'm a meticulously hard worker and have a reputation as the guy to go to when maintenance is a priority.

Now just because my attitude suggests that I lack respect for authority, doesn't mean that's the case. My NCOs treat me with equal respect because I present myself as a person that deserves that kind of respect. Rank doesn't matter in these scenarios because we're working together to achieve a common goal. So to insinuate that I'm somehow less apt at doing my job than a person that acts, unquestioned to the task, is both offensive and uninformed.

SPC Allen, I made no assumptions or insinuations at all. You are the one that stated "Now maybe it's because I'm in aviation and, as anyone who has dealt with aviation can attest to, we tend to be a lot less structured than the other army branches...". I do know a little bit about both military aviation and aircraft building and maintenance, though I have never worked in that field or industry. I also know from personal experience and observation that soldiers and civilians in aviation maintenance are usually more structured than others, very similar to the old quotation about accountants, but more so. And to clarify another point, military and civil aviation maintenance is like no other business.

I am glad that you take great pride in your work and everything that you do. And now that I have read your profile, I have a couple of questions. Did you serve in the 277th Aviation while LTC Ortiz was the commander? Or by any chance know WO4 Sean Wojasinski? If you know either of them what is your opinion of them? Thank you.

SSG Robert Webster "If your in Aviation/Aviation Maintenance, I hope to never have to fly on an aircraft from your unit[...]" I mean, that kinda insinuates that we do a shitty job. And to further that point, I wasn't saying that aviation is a completely unstructured, wild wild west of an Army branch, I was simply stating that the need for overbearing NCO's with authority complexes is scant. I'm not trying to be rude, it just reads that way sometimes.

As for my service in 277th ASB, I was there for a good portion of LTC Ortiz's tenure, although I can't say I know a CW4 Wojanisnski. As to my time there, a good portion of it was spent in Afghanistan where our company was attached to 3-10 GSAB while the 277th command team remained behind to head up the rear detachment. I'd say that I only truly fell under LTC Ortiz's command for maybe a year before I changed battalions, but I can tell you that I didn't enjoy my time in 277th. I won't speak ill of anyone I served with, but I will certainly say that the environment of 277th while I was there was not a friendly one, with many people expressing discontent with the senior leadership throughout the companies and battalion. Now bear in mind that I was an E-3/E-4 for this time period, so I lack a lot of the insight to the reasoning behind all of it, but I can say that there were a lot of unhappy junior enlisted and NCO's in the 2.5 years I was there.

SPC Allen, Thank you for your comments. It sounds like you learned quite a bit while you were assigned to the 277th and I hope that you carry those lessons forward. Good luck in your future endeavors.