Posted on Jun 1, 2015
What is your opinion about "East is East and West is West?"
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This article really puts into perspective what we face as a nation and a military going forward into the future as we develop and introduce new policies and strategic planning in the Middle East and the entire region.
Do you agree with his assessment?
"East is East and West is West" By Major General Jerry Curry, USA, Ret
The great British newsman and poet Rudyard Kipling, understanding today's situation in Afghanistan better than our State Department wrote:
"I have eaten your bread and salt.
I have drunk your water and wine.
The deaths ye died I’ve watched beside and the lives ye led were mine."
There are two points the President and the Secretaries of State and Defense may want to keep in mind as they evaluate future problems in the Mid-East and how to successfully address them. Both are easiest illustrated by real life happenings.
Point 1
Many years ago I attended the Infantry officer Advanced Course at Fort Benning, Georgia. Probably ten percent of the students attending that ten-month course of instruction were from foreign countries. For about half of the course my tablemate was an Arab. We studied together; completed homework assignments together, got to know each other's families and generally enjoyed each other's company. Part of that time we students were immersed in reading about, researching and discussing wars and problems of the Middle East. By this time my Arab classmate and I had, I thought, become close friends.
A question popped into my mind and without evaluating it I said, "I have a question to ask you, but you may find it a little impertinent, or perhaps, offensive."
"That's quite alright", he replied. "We know each other well enough to be
honest with each other. So go ahead and ask your question."
"Well," I began, "Each time you Arabs start a war with Israel, they beat your socks off. Why don't you learn your lesson and quit making war on them?"
The words hadn't passed my lips before I felt that I shouldn't have asked that particular question. But I was wrong. My Arab officer friend didn't get angry. He didn't even think before replying. "My dear friend," he said in his British accent, "You are absolutely right. Each time we attack the Israelis they whip us. But have you noticed that with each loss we get better. We get whipped not as badly as in the war before."
Then he got a faraway look in his eyes, pounded on the table and said, "Sometime in the next thousand years, we will win!"
Up until then I’d never thought in terms of a thousand years, and I don't think I'm very good at it today. But for those formulating foreign and defense policy for the nation, it is worth making the effort. For it’s difficult to think in terms of the immediate future while negotiating with a nation whose leaders are thinking in terms of hundreds or thousands of years.
Point 2.
During the 1st Gulf War, US and Arab forces fought side by side and some of the officers became close friends. When the war ended in victory there was a celebration in the Officer's Club with congratulations all around. A lot of handshaking and hugging was going on. It was a time of displaying real brotherly love.
Seeing this, one of the senior Arab generals felt the need to set the record straight. "Look," he said to a small cluster of American generals. "We’ve fought together and some of us have died together. I know you feel that makes us brothers. But that’s not the way it is in my world."
He looked around the circle making eye contact with all of them. "I don't want to see you hurt, so I need to share this with you. There will be no tomorrow for us jointly. No matter how much you have helped my country and you came and helped us when we desperately needed your help and no matter how friendly you feel toward us, we are still Muslims and you are still Christians. That means that in our eyes, we can never be brothers. I'm sorry, but to us, you will always be Infidels!"
Yes, we Infidels have liberated Iraq and Afghanistan, but we’ve not made their countries, nor their people, depositories of freedom and liberty. No matter how hard we work to rebuild their govts, infrastructure, educational and medical institutions, and no matter how desperately they need our help, as the Arab general noted, we can never be brothers to each other.
Also, I learned what Kipling meant when he wrote: "East is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet". He was pointing out to the western world that to Muslims, we Christians will always be Infidels!
Do you agree with his assessment?
"East is East and West is West" By Major General Jerry Curry, USA, Ret
The great British newsman and poet Rudyard Kipling, understanding today's situation in Afghanistan better than our State Department wrote:
"I have eaten your bread and salt.
I have drunk your water and wine.
The deaths ye died I’ve watched beside and the lives ye led were mine."
There are two points the President and the Secretaries of State and Defense may want to keep in mind as they evaluate future problems in the Mid-East and how to successfully address them. Both are easiest illustrated by real life happenings.
Point 1
Many years ago I attended the Infantry officer Advanced Course at Fort Benning, Georgia. Probably ten percent of the students attending that ten-month course of instruction were from foreign countries. For about half of the course my tablemate was an Arab. We studied together; completed homework assignments together, got to know each other's families and generally enjoyed each other's company. Part of that time we students were immersed in reading about, researching and discussing wars and problems of the Middle East. By this time my Arab classmate and I had, I thought, become close friends.
A question popped into my mind and without evaluating it I said, "I have a question to ask you, but you may find it a little impertinent, or perhaps, offensive."
"That's quite alright", he replied. "We know each other well enough to be
honest with each other. So go ahead and ask your question."
"Well," I began, "Each time you Arabs start a war with Israel, they beat your socks off. Why don't you learn your lesson and quit making war on them?"
The words hadn't passed my lips before I felt that I shouldn't have asked that particular question. But I was wrong. My Arab officer friend didn't get angry. He didn't even think before replying. "My dear friend," he said in his British accent, "You are absolutely right. Each time we attack the Israelis they whip us. But have you noticed that with each loss we get better. We get whipped not as badly as in the war before."
Then he got a faraway look in his eyes, pounded on the table and said, "Sometime in the next thousand years, we will win!"
Up until then I’d never thought in terms of a thousand years, and I don't think I'm very good at it today. But for those formulating foreign and defense policy for the nation, it is worth making the effort. For it’s difficult to think in terms of the immediate future while negotiating with a nation whose leaders are thinking in terms of hundreds or thousands of years.
Point 2.
During the 1st Gulf War, US and Arab forces fought side by side and some of the officers became close friends. When the war ended in victory there was a celebration in the Officer's Club with congratulations all around. A lot of handshaking and hugging was going on. It was a time of displaying real brotherly love.
Seeing this, one of the senior Arab generals felt the need to set the record straight. "Look," he said to a small cluster of American generals. "We’ve fought together and some of us have died together. I know you feel that makes us brothers. But that’s not the way it is in my world."
He looked around the circle making eye contact with all of them. "I don't want to see you hurt, so I need to share this with you. There will be no tomorrow for us jointly. No matter how much you have helped my country and you came and helped us when we desperately needed your help and no matter how friendly you feel toward us, we are still Muslims and you are still Christians. That means that in our eyes, we can never be brothers. I'm sorry, but to us, you will always be Infidels!"
Yes, we Infidels have liberated Iraq and Afghanistan, but we’ve not made their countries, nor their people, depositories of freedom and liberty. No matter how hard we work to rebuild their govts, infrastructure, educational and medical institutions, and no matter how desperately they need our help, as the Arab general noted, we can never be brothers to each other.
Also, I learned what Kipling meant when he wrote: "East is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet". He was pointing out to the western world that to Muslims, we Christians will always be Infidels!
Foreign Policy
Foreign Affairs
Middle East
Posted >1 y ago
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To a point I agree with him.
As long as "the West" keeps thinking that "the East" is just like "the West" then there will never be a reaching of an understanding whereby BOTH can live successfully together.
The "Thousand Year View" is (pretty much) central to the way that "the East" views the world and almost completely irrelevant to the way that "the West" views the world. Because of this difference in viewpoint it simply isn't necessary (to the Muslim mind) to conquer "the West" because "Islam is a historical inevitability" - it is, however, required to prevent "the West" from stamping out Islam. [IOW, the last one to stop fighting is going to be the one who wins.]
As long as "the West" keeps thinking that "the East" is just like "the West" then there will never be a reaching of an understanding whereby BOTH can live successfully together.
The "Thousand Year View" is (pretty much) central to the way that "the East" views the world and almost completely irrelevant to the way that "the West" views the world. Because of this difference in viewpoint it simply isn't necessary (to the Muslim mind) to conquer "the West" because "Islam is a historical inevitability" - it is, however, required to prevent "the West" from stamping out Islam. [IOW, the last one to stop fighting is going to be the one who wins.]
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Sir, I think cultural awareness is essential, but I think Mazlow ID'ed the most important of all needs. People everywhere want security, food, water, waste elimination, social belonging, and then from there it builds. It may puzzle us when social belonging appears to trump some of the others, but that social belonging is strongly linked to survival in social primates.
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COL Ted Mc
Capt Richard I P. - Captain; Would you like to bet that the percentage of the world's population that wouldn't give a damn if their government were a representative democracy, monarchy, theocracy, oligarchy, plutocracy, dictatorship, or any other form of government you can think of PROVIDED that that government got off their backs and let them get on with living their lives and raising their families in some degree of stability does NOT approximate 90%?
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Capt Richard I P.
COL Ted Mc, Sir I'm not sure which idea you're advocating for, that people care more or less about the government than immediate needs. But I would hazard myself that people don't care about the type of government until their bellies are full enough to worry about other things.
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COL Ted Mc
Capt Richard I P. - Captain; On the contrary, people who have full bellies, warm dry places to sleep, get to go about their daily lives with little or no interference, and can see a reasonable chance for improvement in those things tend not to give a damn about "government".
It's the hungry, cold, homeless, and/or hopeless that you have to worry about.
PS - I'm not "advocating" I'm offering an observation on reality. If a theocratic communist monarchy were to take over the US and ensure that every American had enough to eat, a warm and dry place to sleep, a reasonable chance to improve the quality of the lives of themselves and their families, and stayed off the backs of the populace then you'd never get them out of power as long as that condition existed.
Face it "Elect me and I'll make sure that you have a chance to be a cold, starving, homeless person with a dismal future who can only do what I tell you to do." simply doesn't attract many voters.
PS - "Full enough" is a really relative term.
It's the hungry, cold, homeless, and/or hopeless that you have to worry about.
PS - I'm not "advocating" I'm offering an observation on reality. If a theocratic communist monarchy were to take over the US and ensure that every American had enough to eat, a warm and dry place to sleep, a reasonable chance to improve the quality of the lives of themselves and their families, and stayed off the backs of the populace then you'd never get them out of power as long as that condition existed.
Face it "Elect me and I'll make sure that you have a chance to be a cold, starving, homeless person with a dismal future who can only do what I tell you to do." simply doesn't attract many voters.
PS - "Full enough" is a really relative term.
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Absolutely... and we tend not to understand that their world view is VERY different than ours.
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