Posted on Mar 3, 2014
Is 5 years too long till officially being promoted to SGM?
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I just recently did the math. According to the latest MILPER MSG IRT USASMA selection and promotion to SGM the Secondary cut-off is Jun 2012. If you are a hard charger and are selected in the secondary zone then you would be at 2 years TIG for selection to attend the next class in 2015. Starting at USASMA you would then be at 3 years TIG, after graduation and being frocked to SGM you would be at 4 years TIG (roughly). You still need to wait for your number to be officially promoted and this brings you to 5 years TIG before your official promotion to SGM. That seems a bit long to me. What are your thoughts? Should the sequence numbers be thrown out and after graduation you are officially promoted to SGM? You were already deemed deserving of selection and thus frocking to SGM.
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What's even more amazing is that after only 2yrs experience as a MSG/1SG, the board can tell which folks will make better SGMs than the others.
I would be for increasing the TIG requirement by 1yr and trade it for that year of waiting while frocked.
It would still be a total of 5yrs, but I think we need an extra year of assessment to ensure we're choosing the right folks.
I would be for increasing the TIG requirement by 1yr and trade it for that year of waiting while frocked.
It would still be a total of 5yrs, but I think we need an extra year of assessment to ensure we're choosing the right folks.
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MAJ AuBuchon, I agree with you on the summation; however, First Sergeant is another rank that is frocked from SFC(P). You have to be promotable and just waiting on a sequence number. If you are, you can be frocked.
CSM Mike Maynard
MAJ AuBuchon - you are correct about our E9 strength - as BCTs and other units are deactivated, those authorizations disappear, but the CSMs/SGMs don't. We have to rely on retirements, QMPs, QSPs to bring us back into balance, and that takes time.
Additionally, you are correct - SGM is the only rank where we frock everyone. We only frock SFC(P)s when they are in a 1SG slot - we don't frock them to MSG.
Additionally, you are correct - SGM is the only rank where we frock everyone. We only frock SFC(P)s when they are in a 1SG slot - we don't frock them to MSG.
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As I stated CSM, SFC(P) get frocked to 1SG. It is understood we do not frock to MSG.
CSM Mike Maynard
Roger 1SG - I was clarifying/agreeing with MAJ AuBuchon that SGM is the only rank where we frock everyone that is promotable.
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It comes down to budget projections not necessarily assignment openings. There is plenty of CSM and SGM billets but there is only so many authorized to wear the rank and get paid at one given time therefore the need for frocking will never go away. It's a revolving door the ones that just finished the Academy must wait for the ones that are retiring or come close to their high tenure all of these is carefully choreograph by big Army.
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SFC (Join to see)
I don't have too much faith in the Army's ability to accurately forecast promotion requirements. I'm sure modeling is extremely difficult but the past five-six years have shown we aren't getting any better. When I was selected for SFC I had to wait a year and a half to pin. I'm sure it will be the same timeline for me to pin MSG. When looking at 42A MSG and SGM strengths/authorizations for the next year and a half it is looking bleaker and bleaker. We are already over and will continue to lose more auths. During the surge we promoted and grew so quickly that we now have stagnation, this will continue for at least three more years.
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SFC (Join to see)
42's were just an example. With losing more brigades we also lose auths across all MOS'. Anyway, enough doom and gloom.
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CSM Mike Maynard
MAJ AuBuchon - thanks for quoting/referencing this. I have heard of this, but didn't know exactly where this was in Code/Law.
SFC Cardenas and SFC Rapach, the issue with frocking and waiting to be paid for the job you are doing is caused by the code that MAJ AuBuchon talks about and the fact that as soon as a CSM/SGM drops their retirement, they usually come out of their position and start their transition.
If the Army was authorized 100 E9s and 10 of those were retiring and/or on transition leave and not filling their billet, we would have to find 10 non-E9s to fill those slots. That's why there is a need for frocking. We need folks to do the job until those transitioning are retired and then we can start paying them.
SFC Cardenas and SFC Rapach, the issue with frocking and waiting to be paid for the job you are doing is caused by the code that MAJ AuBuchon talks about and the fact that as soon as a CSM/SGM drops their retirement, they usually come out of their position and start their transition.
If the Army was authorized 100 E9s and 10 of those were retiring and/or on transition leave and not filling their billet, we would have to find 10 non-E9s to fill those slots. That's why there is a need for frocking. We need folks to do the job until those transitioning are retired and then we can start paying them.
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made msg 2 years later command want to give me fsg, i refused my retirement packect already submitted
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