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I was at my guard station for my drill weekend, and a seasoned Sergeant First Class told myself and the other Privates that the middle east is a "crap" hole because of the U.S.
He said look at Second World War, in Japan and Germany the U.S. obliterated the entire country. We destroyed all industry and economics in the regions, but built it back up. Now they (Germany and Japan) are some of our most important allies from an economic and military stand point.
In Iraq and Afghanistan we tried to be surgical and careful. And never built the country back up when we destroyed, now ISIS and other terrorists are trying to take over.
He said look at Second World War, in Japan and Germany the U.S. obliterated the entire country. We destroyed all industry and economics in the regions, but built it back up. Now they (Germany and Japan) are some of our most important allies from an economic and military stand point.
In Iraq and Afghanistan we tried to be surgical and careful. And never built the country back up when we destroyed, now ISIS and other terrorists are trying to take over.
Posted in these groups: 
Middle East
Middle East
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 8
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Germany and Japan are totally different cultures with a much different ideology.
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LTC Paul Labrador
SGM, of the two, Iraq would have followed more along with the Germany and Japan analogy. Iraq was a relatively industrialized, modern country, that DID have some experinence with democratic self-rule (albeit over 40yrs ago before Saddam usurped power). The problem wasn't necessarily the culture, it was we didn't follow through on Iraq like we did with Japan and Germany. In both those cases we were looking long term and had accepted that we were going to be in both countries for a long time so we invested the time and effort. In Iraq, we wanted to do regime change/nation-building on the cheap. We didn't want to invest the time or effort, instead tried to pawn it off on the Iraqis as fast as we could.....who simply were not ready. Our goal was to get out of there as fast as we could, not to fix the problem so we didn't have to stay. Big difference between the two.
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CSM (Join to see)
LTC Paul Labrador
Sir - while I agree with your overall assessment. I would have to say that the Iraqi "industrialization" was due to heavy British and American influence and not Iraqi initiative. I would also argue that Japan and Germany were not sectarian like the Iraqis (ideology). The only thing that they had in common with Iraq is dictatorship.
Sir - while I agree with your overall assessment. I would have to say that the Iraqi "industrialization" was due to heavy British and American influence and not Iraqi initiative. I would also argue that Japan and Germany were not sectarian like the Iraqis (ideology). The only thing that they had in common with Iraq is dictatorship.
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There are other options, although there seem to be enough accumulated targets there to keep us gainfully employed.
If you want my opinion, economic warfare is the way to go if we want to bring about change in the area. The nations of the area are as addicted to oil revenue as we are to their product. This vulnerability is a powerful influencer, should we choose to use it.
Oh, and advise your SFC that I said that the Middle East was a crap hole long before the US went there. The last time the Mideast was a place worth fighting over predates the Crusades.
If you want my opinion, economic warfare is the way to go if we want to bring about change in the area. The nations of the area are as addicted to oil revenue as we are to their product. This vulnerability is a powerful influencer, should we choose to use it.
Oh, and advise your SFC that I said that the Middle East was a crap hole long before the US went there. The last time the Mideast was a place worth fighting over predates the Crusades.
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SGT (Join to see)
1SG- valid points. However I respectfully disagree. The Pashtuns set aside ( they have had the same dynamic for over 3000 years), majority of The Middle East could give a flying you know what about money. The people who want it have it. Those who wish to be left alone are left alone.
I think the key is to get rid of fanaticism. General Stanley McChrystal said it best when he summed up the powder keg in the ME. Chiefly Bin Laden with bullets spread propoganda and fanaticism with a fervor.
Most of these people don't have Internet or access to books, libraries, radios etc. many get what they are told by figures of authority, and in Islam, it's the Sheiks and Imams spreading hate and discontent like it's going out of style. If more of the figureheads encourage people to stop buying into the lies and BS, then perhaps it will start the paradigm shift in the future.
I'm not minimizing the situation or what's going on by the way. I just don't feel economic sanctions when most of these people had no money to begin with isn't the answer. Well posed response 1SG.
I think the key is to get rid of fanaticism. General Stanley McChrystal said it best when he summed up the powder keg in the ME. Chiefly Bin Laden with bullets spread propoganda and fanaticism with a fervor.
Most of these people don't have Internet or access to books, libraries, radios etc. many get what they are told by figures of authority, and in Islam, it's the Sheiks and Imams spreading hate and discontent like it's going out of style. If more of the figureheads encourage people to stop buying into the lies and BS, then perhaps it will start the paradigm shift in the future.
I'm not minimizing the situation or what's going on by the way. I just don't feel economic sanctions when most of these people had no money to begin with isn't the answer. Well posed response 1SG.
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1SG (Join to see)
SGT (Join to see), I might of spent a LITTLE bit of time studying the area...
Fanaticism sometimes is the driver for the minions, but almost never the chiefs. The power brokers, the real bad actors, are driven by either monetary gain or power. The Saudis made the shrewdest move in a long time when they undercut the price of oil. Suddenly that black market oil that ISIS was sneaking into Turkey to sell was a lot less profitable. Oh, and by the way that took a lot of the starch out of Iran and (unintentionally) Russia.
You're coming at this from a bit of an Afghanistan angle. I assure you that money is indeed the motivator for your average Taliban middle manager. They are very interested in smuggling Opium, guns, or whatever else is of value in the area, simultaneously shaking down the locals for "protection money".
You can tell a lot about what is important to a man by how he spends his time. And they spend a whole lot more time on economic activities (legal and not) than they do on combat operations. Oh, and drugs are an affront to their supposedly motivating faith.
Fanaticism sometimes is the driver for the minions, but almost never the chiefs. The power brokers, the real bad actors, are driven by either monetary gain or power. The Saudis made the shrewdest move in a long time when they undercut the price of oil. Suddenly that black market oil that ISIS was sneaking into Turkey to sell was a lot less profitable. Oh, and by the way that took a lot of the starch out of Iran and (unintentionally) Russia.
You're coming at this from a bit of an Afghanistan angle. I assure you that money is indeed the motivator for your average Taliban middle manager. They are very interested in smuggling Opium, guns, or whatever else is of value in the area, simultaneously shaking down the locals for "protection money".
You can tell a lot about what is important to a man by how he spends his time. And they spend a whole lot more time on economic activities (legal and not) than they do on combat operations. Oh, and drugs are an affront to their supposedly motivating faith.
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They have been at war since Isaac and Ishmael. In my opinion, there is nothing that we can do that would bring about peace in this region, short of complete extermination of all inhabitants (which I oppose). Let them duke it the fuck out.
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