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Army
Officers
NCOs
Responses: 269
203
203
0
I have to disagree.
The Army, as it is today, is the Army as it has always been. Officers Command (Plan, provide vision, and resource) and are ultimately Responsible for all that happens or fails to happen. NCOs, are the backbone of our Army, and make our Army vastly different (better) than most any other Army on the planet. NCOs are the ones who make everything happen day in and day out. Officers Command, NCOs make it happen.
Officers and NCOs have very distinct roles, which if you need to read it, is laid out quite well in AR 600-20.
Command Sergeant Majors, as an example Command Nothing. I heard that from a my Battalion CSM, when I was a Battalion XO. As he explained, their (his) power, all NCO power comes from the Officers, and what they enable. That can be different, based on the individual Commander.
For me, I enabled and empowered my NCOs to do whatever needed to be done. I always told our Soldiers (include my officers) if PSG, 1SG, CSM said it... you can assume I was saying it. NCOs in my branch are the X-factor. MP Branch is essentially a squad based branch.
NCOs have very distinct roles and responsibilities, as do we Os.
If I succeeded as an officer and as a Commander, it was all because of the NCOs who had my 6.
The Army, as it is today, is the Army as it has always been. Officers Command (Plan, provide vision, and resource) and are ultimately Responsible for all that happens or fails to happen. NCOs, are the backbone of our Army, and make our Army vastly different (better) than most any other Army on the planet. NCOs are the ones who make everything happen day in and day out. Officers Command, NCOs make it happen.
Officers and NCOs have very distinct roles, which if you need to read it, is laid out quite well in AR 600-20.
Command Sergeant Majors, as an example Command Nothing. I heard that from a my Battalion CSM, when I was a Battalion XO. As he explained, their (his) power, all NCO power comes from the Officers, and what they enable. That can be different, based on the individual Commander.
For me, I enabled and empowered my NCOs to do whatever needed to be done. I always told our Soldiers (include my officers) if PSG, 1SG, CSM said it... you can assume I was saying it. NCOs in my branch are the X-factor. MP Branch is essentially a squad based branch.
NCOs have very distinct roles and responsibilities, as do we Os.
If I succeeded as an officer and as a Commander, it was all because of the NCOs who had my 6.
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SSG Joe McFarland
As a former NCO, I think it is more like Officers issue more of an Idea and hope we can get it done...
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SFC Greg Rhoads
I agree with ya COL. But, I remember SMA Morrell telling us a senior NCO conference that he was nobody’s backbone (spine) but will always lead from the front.
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Capt Bill Bellamy
LTC Gene Moser - Let's not forget LBJ and his ultimate pronouncement,"Those boys can't hit an outhouse without my permission".
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COL Tom Dials
I learned as a young platoon leader in Vietnam that, if you want a high performing unit, you’d better cede (delegate) the authority (power) to run the unit to the NCOs. As an officer you command, thus it is your RESPONSIBILITY (which cannot be delegated) to ensure that those you give authority to are competent to use it...that’s what lieutenants need to figure out - how to judge the character and competence of your noncommissioned leaders. Whatever success I had in the Army was the product of the effort of my NCOs.
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I hate to break it to them but Officers have always had the power in the Army. I know it may be hard to believe but the Army has always been lead by officers. Now the NCOs have risen and have a greater influence today than they ever have. I hope they realize that there wasn't even a E8 or E9 pay grade until 1958. Until then it was more a position than a rank. Since then NCOs have gained so many more responsibilities and duties. But NCOs don't command any large bodies of soldiers. It is like saying that the Executives of a company run the company. Yeah, they do but they couldn't do it without the managers and workers. And we would be complete failure if it wasn't for NCOs.
I am so tired of this Officers have all the power. Yeah we do but we trust our NCOs to advise us. Every command in the Army is held by an Officer, minus some commandant positions and few rare situations. But we don't have an easy life as others make it out to be. Sure we don't fill sand bags or pull fire guard but that is not what I am here for. There is not a factor of equality in this. A command is very demanding. But so few really see what really goes on. A lot of the times is the lower enlisted that don't see this. If you were to ask a 1SG or a CSM about officers do they will tell you.
NCOs are the backbone of the Army but the backbone is there to support the head. I think a lot of them forget that.
I am so tired of this Officers have all the power. Yeah we do but we trust our NCOs to advise us. Every command in the Army is held by an Officer, minus some commandant positions and few rare situations. But we don't have an easy life as others make it out to be. Sure we don't fill sand bags or pull fire guard but that is not what I am here for. There is not a factor of equality in this. A command is very demanding. But so few really see what really goes on. A lot of the times is the lower enlisted that don't see this. If you were to ask a 1SG or a CSM about officers do they will tell you.
NCOs are the backbone of the Army but the backbone is there to support the head. I think a lot of them forget that.
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SFC Greg Rhoads
The term “Backbone” has been a point of contention for many years. At a Senior NCO conference SMA Morrell was adamant that he was nobody’s backbone. If they can’t hold themselves up they have no reason to be in positions of leadership. I held a Deputy Commander position as a SP5 and didn’t have an officer in my unit for over 18 months. When I did get one, he was a Warrant Officer. It’s not what you have on your collar or sleeve, it’s what you have in your heart that enables one to command.
My opinion and experience.
My opinion and experience.
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SGT James Shelhart
Ain't gonna lie and say I haven't seen some sorry excuses for officers but can be said the same for nico's also. Most of my officers where pretty cool and had my back when I made a choice on how to handle my soldiers and handled the snco's when I ran the urinalis for them. Officers hold power from the high ups and take the slack off the nco's so they can train the troops for what is ahead of them and mold them into leaders, and the also pull on the reigns so that nco's don't go to far. When it all works together, it is a fine machine, put one butthead in there, either side, and it's a mess
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MSG (Join to see)
Very good break down of how the two elements of officers and non-commissioned officers coincide at different points within command structure. Junior enlisted do not have the experience to look at roles and responsibilities other than from the bottom up so your explanation really helps to make each role clear.
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CPT (Join to see)
MSG (Join to see) - Thanks I really appreciate that. I started out as a PFC and I have worked my way on up. I think I can see this from a few angles.
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87
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Seeing as how all our power/authority derives from and is granted to us by Commissioned Officers, this whole debate seems like a non starter..
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SFC Michael Hasbun
Sgt (Join to see) I'm providing you the quote from the Manual for Courts Martial and the Uniform Code for Military Justice.
I appreciate your 3rd party website, but the UCMJ disagrees with you.
I appreciate your 3rd party website, but the UCMJ disagrees with you.
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Sgt (Join to see)
Ok you refuse to see that the USMJ is a federal law and congress passes federal laws.
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SFC Michael Hasbun
Sgt (Join to see) - Young Sergeant. I have shown you STRAIGHT FROM THE SOURCE the governing body for the UCMJ. At this point, you're arguing with the UCMJ, not me. If you don't agree, you should contact the Joint Service Committee on Military Justice to change the UCMJ and MCM to make it say what you want it to.
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