Posted on Oct 13, 2020
Why is that some soldiers go from a Special operations assignment to another SOF assignment? And in some cases their whole career?
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I’ve been curious about this for awhile and it even made me upset a few times in the past. I wanna know if there’s a certain reason behind this, or if they’re just getting lucky. In my case I started in the 82nd, went to SOF, and then was pulled out and brought back to 82nd. At the same time, there was other soldiers I knew of the same MOS who went directly to another SOF assignment. I always wondered to myself, “why did they pull me and not this guy? Especially since they’ve never been to conventional army before.” I was told that this based on TOS, first reenlistments, etc. Will those soldiers eventually go to conventional Army or could they end up in SOF for the rest of their careers? If someone can clarify, I would very much appreciate it. While I am proud to have served in the 82nd twice, I am still salty that I was pulled out of SOF and some others weren’t.
Posted 4 y ago
Responses: 10
Almost nobody stays in SOF their entire career. There is no such thing as "SOF Support MOS". The things that make you a valuable asset to the SOF community are the skills and resources you develop in the conventional Army.
Let's be very clear, they are not "SOF" support, they are 1st SF Command support. You won't find any of this support "Enabler" nonsense in the 160th or the 75th, both units that are considered SOF. 1st SF Command is just another Airborne assignment for lower enlisted Paratroopers.
The handful of people who do stay long term just reenlisted at the right time and there was an opening for them. MI are more likely to stay because USSOCOM has a deep thirst for MI assets and they are always short. This is why you'll see NAP MI personnel in SFC but rarely an NAP mechanic. For Senior NCOs and officers there is an annual slating board you have to apply to. Even when you are assigned to USASOC you have to reapply every year.
For people who stay too long it will negatively impact their career. They may pick up E5 and E6 quickly, but they will lag behind their peers at the higher ranks. The Army values diversity in your career. It doesn't matter if you can do well at one particular unit, they want to see that you can be dropped into any assignment (Drill, Recruiter, PSG, Ops, Instructor, EO Advisor etc) and be successful in it. If SOF is the only thing an NCO is good at, then they're just a one-trick pony.
Unfortunately, this catches up to Soldiers who spend their life in USASOC who are support personnel. Two fatal flaws I've seen from NCOs who have spent too long in USASOC. The first is they start to believe they're special. They are not special, they had a 100GT (waiverable to 9) Secret Clearance and were Airborne qualified. Most support in the 82nd meet those prerequisites. They get salty when they have to leave. They believe they have special schools and training that will hurt the unit when they leave, but the truth is they'll send the very next SPC who shows up to the unit to the same schools and training. This also leads them to believe the SOF way is the best way and the Regular Army way is stupid. Truth is each way is best for its operating environment. USASOC is NCO heavy and can operate different than the 82nd which is SPC heavy.
The second issue I've seen for Soldiers who have spent their career in USASOC is that they get promoted through the lower ranks quickly because of their technical ability but lack any leadership experience. You end up with an E6 with four years in the Army who can tell you the NSN for a 9MM silencer but doesn't know how to handle a Soldier who's failing their PT test or where to get help for their Soldier whose family can't afford food.
It might sound like I'm exaggerating but I've seen more NCOs relieved in the Army after they left long term USASOC assignments than I've seen for any other reason except DUIs. I've seen the 82d chew up and spit out so many Soldiers and NCOs who thought they were awesome but couldn't hack it in the Regular Army.
The best way to approach USASOC is like a broadening assignment. You develop your skill set and leadership experience in the RA. Then you bring that experience and discipline to USASOC. In USASOC you develop your technical experience and hopefully get some operational experience and you bring that to the RA. When you do return to USASOC at a later date, and you almost certainly will, you'll quickly see the most competent NCOs are the ones who are frsh transplants from thge RA and the ones who've been there too long are often the ones who are the least competent. So, develop your skill set. Build your resume. Head back there after you complete your broadening assignment time so you can apply as a SFC.
Let's be very clear, they are not "SOF" support, they are 1st SF Command support. You won't find any of this support "Enabler" nonsense in the 160th or the 75th, both units that are considered SOF. 1st SF Command is just another Airborne assignment for lower enlisted Paratroopers.
The handful of people who do stay long term just reenlisted at the right time and there was an opening for them. MI are more likely to stay because USSOCOM has a deep thirst for MI assets and they are always short. This is why you'll see NAP MI personnel in SFC but rarely an NAP mechanic. For Senior NCOs and officers there is an annual slating board you have to apply to. Even when you are assigned to USASOC you have to reapply every year.
For people who stay too long it will negatively impact their career. They may pick up E5 and E6 quickly, but they will lag behind their peers at the higher ranks. The Army values diversity in your career. It doesn't matter if you can do well at one particular unit, they want to see that you can be dropped into any assignment (Drill, Recruiter, PSG, Ops, Instructor, EO Advisor etc) and be successful in it. If SOF is the only thing an NCO is good at, then they're just a one-trick pony.
Unfortunately, this catches up to Soldiers who spend their life in USASOC who are support personnel. Two fatal flaws I've seen from NCOs who have spent too long in USASOC. The first is they start to believe they're special. They are not special, they had a 100GT (waiverable to 9) Secret Clearance and were Airborne qualified. Most support in the 82nd meet those prerequisites. They get salty when they have to leave. They believe they have special schools and training that will hurt the unit when they leave, but the truth is they'll send the very next SPC who shows up to the unit to the same schools and training. This also leads them to believe the SOF way is the best way and the Regular Army way is stupid. Truth is each way is best for its operating environment. USASOC is NCO heavy and can operate different than the 82nd which is SPC heavy.
The second issue I've seen for Soldiers who have spent their career in USASOC is that they get promoted through the lower ranks quickly because of their technical ability but lack any leadership experience. You end up with an E6 with four years in the Army who can tell you the NSN for a 9MM silencer but doesn't know how to handle a Soldier who's failing their PT test or where to get help for their Soldier whose family can't afford food.
It might sound like I'm exaggerating but I've seen more NCOs relieved in the Army after they left long term USASOC assignments than I've seen for any other reason except DUIs. I've seen the 82d chew up and spit out so many Soldiers and NCOs who thought they were awesome but couldn't hack it in the Regular Army.
The best way to approach USASOC is like a broadening assignment. You develop your skill set and leadership experience in the RA. Then you bring that experience and discipline to USASOC. In USASOC you develop your technical experience and hopefully get some operational experience and you bring that to the RA. When you do return to USASOC at a later date, and you almost certainly will, you'll quickly see the most competent NCOs are the ones who are frsh transplants from thge RA and the ones who've been there too long are often the ones who are the least competent. So, develop your skill set. Build your resume. Head back there after you complete your broadening assignment time so you can apply as a SFC.
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SSG (Join to see)
SFC (Join to see) thank for sharing that with me. This is the kind of information and knowledge I seek on rally point. You’ve given me a new perspective on how to look at this subject. What’s ironic to me was that after branch sent me back to the 82nd, I was unaware that it would become one of my most rewarding assignments so far. I got to deploy again and become a part of history with the IRF, met my two soldier who are great, and overcame challenges of the next position up. Although I’m in a new assignment now, being with 1st BCT is one I’ll never forget. I’ll be sure to remember this advice and knowledge and pass it down to others who need to hear it as well. Thanks, again.
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SSG (Join to see)
LTC Charles Blake Sir, thank you for your input. I will remember this. I definitely look forward to the day I go back to SOF/SFAS.
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SFC (Join to see)
SSG (Join to see) it's BCT is a great organization and I loved my time I spent there. Anyone who makes it in the 82nd can usually make it anywhere. Some of the most competent and successful Green Berets and RIs I met started out in the Duece
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It all falls under manning. Branch manager has to look at people and move them around. Some get to stay in SOF - they may have a high rank backing them up, they may not. I was a 38B - a SOF MOS and I still got sent out to USAREC for a stint while plenty of others got to stay in the 95th, made me salty AF. What did I do? I capitalized on the situation, finished 2 degrees and now I'm a Warrant. Like SFC (Join to see) said - those who stay supporting SOF for a while usually miss out on key NCO development because its all mission focus, and when they finally do return to conventional - they're that NCO that has troubles dealing with Soldiers.
Did you get your "S" SQI? That can play into assignments (that's why we have SQIs - for assignments).
Did you get your "S" SQI? That can play into assignments (that's why we have SQIs - for assignments).
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CW2 (Join to see)
MAJ Javier Rivera - Well, we didn't get much of anything else in regards to training for our MOS' and staying relevant, so we had to find it ourselves.
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MAJ Javier Rivera
I heard you CW2 (Join to see)!
I did got lucky with the EOD recruiters. Their branch gave them all kind of opportunities. SWC? Not even to the 18s!
I did got lucky with the EOD recruiters. Their branch gave them all kind of opportunities. SWC? Not even to the 18s!
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SSG (Join to see)
CW2 (Join to see) Sir, thanks for your input. Yes, I’ve definitely seen a few inexperienced/ undisciplined NCO/soldiers during my time in SOF and it makes me proud to have started my career in the 82nd which instilled a solid foundation of discipline within me that I took over into SOF. I did submit for the “S” identifier, however I had failed to follow up with it and never found out if it reached the top. All is well, I’ll submit for it when I get my chance to return.
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CW2 (Join to see)
SSG (Join to see) that SQI helps keep people under the Usasoc umbrella. Get it if you want to go back
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Then be happy you had someone who cared for your career and pulled you back to the conventional force. Don’t get me wrong, SOF experience is good to have since is part of the whole Soldier concept (tactical / technical proficiency thing?), but truth be told, your core leadership skills (remember the backbone of the Army thing?) would not fully at work; a nice break at least for a short stint in most cases. But not serious professional development. For a junior enlisted? A different ball game, and still when the go to a conventional unit, lost in the sauce with all kinds of bad habits.
Case in point: very good friend of mine during my younger years. Both of us Parachute Riggers. 43E back then, that’s how long ago. All we special schools and lots of swag. He gets to follows the path of SMUs. Ok, all cool! Me on the other hand, a regular Joe. Time goes, I’m like, dude, when are you going back to the conventions force? You have been inside the fence way too long, away from troops with no real NCO experience... at all! The lower unit member at the organization was an E5; at the time. Of course his reply was, like SFC (Join to see) stated, too much training and school that the world will come to an end, etc... Because the MOS and 9/11, he managed to retired at 20, not a single day over! Any other time? He would be RIFd!
Did he had fun?
Cool, training, experiences? Yes
But in the great scheme of things, career suicide!
Then again, be blessed someone looked after you and pulled you back to the conventional force. Now, go and look for that Sr Supply SGT at BN or better yet, put a packet and become a Drill SGT!
Case in point: very good friend of mine during my younger years. Both of us Parachute Riggers. 43E back then, that’s how long ago. All we special schools and lots of swag. He gets to follows the path of SMUs. Ok, all cool! Me on the other hand, a regular Joe. Time goes, I’m like, dude, when are you going back to the conventions force? You have been inside the fence way too long, away from troops with no real NCO experience... at all! The lower unit member at the organization was an E5; at the time. Of course his reply was, like SFC (Join to see) stated, too much training and school that the world will come to an end, etc... Because the MOS and 9/11, he managed to retired at 20, not a single day over! Any other time? He would be RIFd!
Did he had fun?
Cool, training, experiences? Yes
But in the great scheme of things, career suicide!
Then again, be blessed someone looked after you and pulled you back to the conventional force. Now, go and look for that Sr Supply SGT at BN or better yet, put a packet and become a Drill SGT!
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SSG (Join to see)
MAJ Javier Rivera Sir, thank you for your input. Although I was upset at first when I found out I was being sent back to the 82nd, it became one my most rewarding assignments (as I’ve said in my post to SFC Boyd). I’m glad that I started in division because it prepared me for SOF and then SOF made me better and back to 82nd made me even more better/competent. It’s funny how you look back in life and realize why certain things had to happen after asking why. Thanks for sharing that story. I’m great full for all the knowledge I’ve received in this post. It has given me a new perspective on how to look at it.
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MAJ Javier Rivera
Funny thing SSG (Join to see), just saw your profile. You’ve been on my old stomping grounds: 1st PSYOP BN.
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SSG (Join to see)
MAJ Javier Rivera The best Psyop BN. Met some great leaders/people there and will never forget them. It wasn’t until I left that I realized why 1st POB is called “the first family”. Primero con los mejores, Senor!
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