Posted on Sep 28, 2020
Can PL negatively counsel PSG for failure to supervise APFT progress of one of the soldiers in the platoon?
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I'm a brand new PL. My PSG has been in the Army for about 17 years. He knows easy ways out of tasks that are outside his comfort zone... the bottom line is he is the Sham-Artist... laziest NCO I've ever met in my life. His NCOER is due in about a month. One of the soldiers in my platoon has been failing his APFT for the past 10 months. His is the only APFT failure in the entire company. We've been conducting APFT to accommodate just 1 soldier.
To my request from PSG about daily PT and remedial PT for the soldier in question his immediate answer is "Sir, that's NCO lane, I delegated this task to the squad leader".
Of course I trust my PSG, but I always verify. Over the past 1p months, not once I've seen the PSG conducting PT session or doing a spot check.
Now the NCOER is due, and I need good reason and paper-trail how to reflect this on his performance.
Please help.
To my request from PSG about daily PT and remedial PT for the soldier in question his immediate answer is "Sir, that's NCO lane, I delegated this task to the squad leader".
Of course I trust my PSG, but I always verify. Over the past 1p months, not once I've seen the PSG conducting PT session or doing a spot check.
Now the NCOER is due, and I need good reason and paper-trail how to reflect this on his performance.
Please help.
Job Performance
APFT
NCOER
Platoon Sergeant
Platoon Leader
Posted 4 y ago
Responses: 29
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Wow...To be perfectly honest, you've left this too long. If you haven't gotten initial counseling and monthly counseling statements marking progress in the goals you set up in the initial counseling, then you've not done right by your Platoon Sergeant, and frankly that is on you. Chalk this up to learning. Finish up the NCOER, and then do an initial counseling for the next rating period. State specific goals you want to accomplish for the next rating period and get his feedback (these goals should be right in line with the goals you state on your OER Support Form and fall in line with the company commander's goals and so on up the chain). The second part of a counseling form is to document what he discusses with you as ways to make that happen to include any interim goals you and he agree upon. PT does fall into NCO business and delegating remedial tasks is part of a PSGs job. You've given an example of one task that this "Sham-artist" has delegated away. If that task isn't getting done to your satisfaction, you cannot simply blame the method, cite the outcome. Give the PSG the opportunity to fix it, and outline failures to meet any goals in follow-up counselings. It wouldn't be unheard of to ask the PSG for a monthly or even weekly update on progress of the goals or to be briefed on the plan of action for this specific task. Then when you know the plan, grab your PSG by the arm and both of you check together that the plan is being executed. As the platoon leader, it also wouldn't be unheard of for you to talk to the soldier and the assigned squad leader to show them that this is important to you. If a PT failure is starting to put you in front of the CO, it is okay to express to the PSG that you're tired of getting your butt chewed and if he doesn't get it fixed, you'll be taking it out of the NCO lane. Finally, if one soldier is doing remedial PT, it never hurts for the PL to go and join the soldier to show leadership by example, and support for the soldier. Finally, before I called a senior NCO a sham-artist I might spend some time with the 1SG. His experience, feedback, and guidance is going to be much more valuable than the vast experience a 2LT has in judging the "laziest NCO" he's ever met.
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SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
Also keep track of everything done by Your platoon Sergeant and anyone else under Your control both positive and negative to show a balance if it come under review. It can't have the appearance You were only looking for the negative. As the colonel also pointed out You getting chewed out due that NCO not performing his own duties doesn't fly and must be corrected right away like NOW ! A First Sergeant would be a good place to get some input as the Colonel has pointed out. As an NCOIC not often but I did go to our O1C on another NCO under by control and told Him I don't want Him here anymore, put Him somewhere else, I'm fed up with having Him complete tasks over again because He didn't do what He was supposed to and its wasn't satisfactory and He was reassigned. He was cutting corners and I wasn't going to put up with it any more, He had been told. I had to check His paperwork constantly and made Him stay over a number of times to accomplish what he should of in the first place. His APR, Airman Performance report reflected His poor performance. another NCO under My supervision however I didn't even need to check His work, it was always complete and accurate. His APR was outstanding and He was selected for promotion. Most people can be counted on but there are some exceptions.
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CSM Christopher St. Cyr
Sir,
Using a vent diagram to illustrate Officer and NCO business puts NCO business within the circle of Officer business. NCOs don’t like it when I say that but it is true. The only way NCOs retain their power and authority is by supporting the good work of Officers. Only when they do that do they develop the trust to put the brakes on something an Officer is doing that is out of line.
Just because NCO business is in the Office business circle does not mean Officers should focus on it. I think I read somewhere that “Officers of my unit will have maximum time to accomplish their duties; they will not have to accomplish (NCO duties).”
Using a vent diagram to illustrate Officer and NCO business puts NCO business within the circle of Officer business. NCOs don’t like it when I say that but it is true. The only way NCOs retain their power and authority is by supporting the good work of Officers. Only when they do that do they develop the trust to put the brakes on something an Officer is doing that is out of line.
Just because NCO business is in the Office business circle does not mean Officers should focus on it. I think I read somewhere that “Officers of my unit will have maximum time to accomplish their duties; they will not have to accomplish (NCO duties).”
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Suspended Profile
From my initial read of this post, there seems to be a deeper issue here. Also, one month before an NCOER is not the time to start a “paper-trail”. If you truly want to discuss this issue and receive some mentorship - please feel free to email me - find me on the Global (DeJesus, Noel).
1SG Alfred Webster
I suggest that , 1. the Lt. get familIar with AR 600-30 ( army command and policy )
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Just because you dont see it doesn’t mean it is not getting done. The PSG should have delegated to the Squad leader & the team leader should be doing PT with his soldier. Just like the delegation went down the PSG will ask about the progress of the Soldier from that Squad leader & Team leader. Then maybe once a month take that soldier and do PT with him personally. It is probably not him being in 17 years and Shaming, he has NCO’s he can trust and delegates tasks to them & they give him status reports during the platoon meetings. As his rater he should of been counseled by you every 3 months but it sounds like that wasn’t done. So does that make you the laziest 2LT ever? I mean your not doing your job so that should reflect on your OER then right?
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SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
I would agree that tasks can be delegated including the authority to carry out the required tasks and that being said still follow up to insure they are actually being accomplished. It is the responsibility of each person going down the chain of command to carry their load and for supervisors to make sure the tasks are being accomplished. Make sure also that You support those Supervisors who were delegated that task and authority and communicate with them constantly to head off problems before they get out of control. I would not expect the Platoon Sergeant or even You to do everything Yourselves but delegate which puts more control towards the expected goals. Many of the things that SFC Lewis mentioned should be done anyway as a course of action to prevent problems in the first place. Also to coin a motto of a prior unit I was assigned "Excellence by Example" That should carry straight down the line through the chain of command and supervision.
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