Posted on Sep 15, 2020
How do you avoid going to USASMA under new promotion system while the up and out rules apply?
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For those unaware the Army last year transitioned to a new NCO promotion system that ties more into the STEP program. However, one of the problems for people in my position is that you can no longer opt out of promotion. Up and out rules say go to school or get out. I have zero desire to be a SGM/CSM but also at my current TIS would be required to separate from Army before reaching 20 years TIS. This is silly! I would’ve chosen a different path if I would’ve known this was to happen. There was no offered grace period to us. This is a great system for 15 years TIS and under but for those of us who have spent 50 months in theater in a tactical organization are tired and ready to get out. But not before I reach retirement. I can’t find anything in regs outside a mental breakdown that would allow be to defer going to USASMA and with dropping retirement packet(not eligible) or separate. Who is the Jedi Master in this new reg? I wonder of the legalities since it conflicts with RCP and career maps for indef Soldiers who may have chosen different promotion paths. Thoughts and opinions are great but someone with a solution would be perfect?
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Posted 4 y ago
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The magic word you’re looking for is called “Sanctuary”. You can’t be separated at 18 years unless you seriously mess up, or you are medically separated.
The up and out you’re describing doesn’t apply to enlisted. The enlisted version of up and out has to do with completing your DLC. If you fail to complete your DLC prior to the board you can’t be looked at for promotion. Some people have used this to avoid being looked at for promotion for years. Under the new system, if you do this for two years in a row the Army will separate you, that’s the up or out part. It’s not new, the Army announce these changes back in 2018 or so. They are only just now implementing the part for Senior NCOs. So, the first way to avoid it is simply don’t complete your DLC if you haven’t already.
The second part of the new program is that if you decline promotion you have a year to separate. However, that’s not from when the list comes out but from when you are supposed to pin on. You can probably decline going to USASMA once you’re placed on assignment. But if you can’t, USASMA itself is only a one year SRR, pinning on SGM is where the three year SRR comes from. Even if you decline a promotion at 18 years, sanctuary will allow you to stay to retire.
Nothing about this conflicts with RCP, which for MSG is 26 years, or any Soldiers career maps. Most Soldiers career maps have them projected to pin on MSG between 14-18 years, leaving plenty of time to be evaluated and selected for SGM prior to their RCP.
So, the first thing is don’t do DLC, the second is you can still decline the promotion, and the third is you can always just write a letter to the board stating that you absolutely do not want to be promoted. It’s not what a letter to the board is usually used for, but it will definitely have an impact.
Information is good, but validation is golden. A good place to validate all this info is by emailing the promotion branch directly to confirm the details. There are so many things when it comes to processing personnel actions that aren’t covered in regulation but are covered by an in house SOP, that it helps to just go straight to the source. HRC also has a page on sanctuary but it doesn’t say a lot, it’s geared more for bringing people back on active duty to complete the past two years till retirement.
The up and out you’re describing doesn’t apply to enlisted. The enlisted version of up and out has to do with completing your DLC. If you fail to complete your DLC prior to the board you can’t be looked at for promotion. Some people have used this to avoid being looked at for promotion for years. Under the new system, if you do this for two years in a row the Army will separate you, that’s the up or out part. It’s not new, the Army announce these changes back in 2018 or so. They are only just now implementing the part for Senior NCOs. So, the first way to avoid it is simply don’t complete your DLC if you haven’t already.
The second part of the new program is that if you decline promotion you have a year to separate. However, that’s not from when the list comes out but from when you are supposed to pin on. You can probably decline going to USASMA once you’re placed on assignment. But if you can’t, USASMA itself is only a one year SRR, pinning on SGM is where the three year SRR comes from. Even if you decline a promotion at 18 years, sanctuary will allow you to stay to retire.
Nothing about this conflicts with RCP, which for MSG is 26 years, or any Soldiers career maps. Most Soldiers career maps have them projected to pin on MSG between 14-18 years, leaving plenty of time to be evaluated and selected for SGM prior to their RCP.
So, the first thing is don’t do DLC, the second is you can still decline the promotion, and the third is you can always just write a letter to the board stating that you absolutely do not want to be promoted. It’s not what a letter to the board is usually used for, but it will definitely have an impact.
Information is good, but validation is golden. A good place to validate all this info is by emailing the promotion branch directly to confirm the details. There are so many things when it comes to processing personnel actions that aren’t covered in regulation but are covered by an in house SOP, that it helps to just go straight to the source. HRC also has a page on sanctuary but it doesn’t say a lot, it’s geared more for bringing people back on active duty to complete the past two years till retirement.
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SFC (Join to see)
MSG (Join to see) sanctuary only applies to when you are being separated, not when requesting separation. If you are selected for USASMA it is a PCS so normal PCS rules apply. Retirement in lieu of PCS is only possible when you receive your PCS instruction at 19 years and 6 months.
If you are selected for USASMA and the intent is to retire at 20, it’s better to request the non resident course that only has a 6 month SRR and then retire in place.
If you are selected for USASMA and the intent is to retire at 20, it’s better to request the non resident course that only has a 6 month SRR and then retire in place.
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MSG (Join to see)
When you read the requirements for NR USASMA and look at those phases, you run the gamble of approval based upon situation.
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SFC (Join to see)
MSG (Join to see) there are other routes to take as well. For instance, you’re a combat arms NCO with almost 20 years of service. You can almost certainly initiate a med board if you are selected for USASMA. Even if the med board recommends retirement you can request COAD and finish your 20 years. Based on your record of performance it is frequently approved. You can attend the course and MEB once you hit 20 years as well. It only requires a permanent profile to initiate. You can attend the course, finish the ADSO as an ops SGM and retire I think they recently reinstated the ability to decline CSL consideration, but I’m not sure.
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I know that in the Reserves, it takes at least 9-12 months for a Retirement Packet to process. How long does a Retirement Packet take to process on Active Duty MSG (Join to see)?
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MSG (Join to see)
MSG (Join to see) - I was wondering if putting in the packet will possibly negate the Board looking at you for promotion
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MSG (Join to see)
Your packet is different this year only by when your window opens you can decline. By not selecting anything or by selecting I have reviewed my packet and understand there needs to be corrections. You still get viewed. The Army changed a lot of KD positions to qualify more people to be viewed by the board. They don’t assign a sequence but rather score your file and those scores land you in an algorithm which ranks you amongst your MOS peers.
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MSG (Join to see)
MSG (Join to see) Spot on! I'm glad someone brought this up because I'm sure many people are in this same situation.
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I'm in a similar situation. I have my fingers crossed that I don't get selected for promotion because it'll completely ruin my retirement plans/timeline...
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