Posted on Jul 19, 2020
Do members who are a part of the Simultaneous Membership Program outrank enlisted members in the Air Force?
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I have an subordinate who is enrolled in AF ROTC and enlisted in the Air National Guard (E4). I understand that this person is apart of SMP but does this individual outrank all other enlisted? I know in the Army, the answer is yes; but I am not sure in the Air Force.
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 17
Ah, the old question "Does a Cadet outrank enlisted"? Cadets serving in SMP programs are paid as E-5, but that's just pay scale and their rank is Cadet, which isn't anywhere in your chain of command. However, if your unit is trying to train that Cadet, they should have him/her at least assisting a position that is commissioned. In that case, they should be given the authority and courtesy of the position. So if they are acting as Assistant Platoon Leader, obey their instructions and salute them at the appropriate times. If for no other reason, then remember that person could be commissioned and your boss in the very near future.
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Sergeant,
This is a telling situation. IF the SMP Cadet/Airman is throwing the "I outrank You" card, then it is indicative of a service member that has his priorities skewed and I doubt that his ROTC Commanders would support him playing the rank card either. IF you are right, If you are correct, then the SMP guy should just do the right thing, follow orders and drive on. IF you are in the wrong, you need to step up, own it and drive on.
This is a telling situation. IF the SMP Cadet/Airman is throwing the "I outrank You" card, then it is indicative of a service member that has his priorities skewed and I doubt that his ROTC Commanders would support him playing the rank card either. IF you are right, If you are correct, then the SMP guy should just do the right thing, follow orders and drive on. IF you are in the wrong, you need to step up, own it and drive on.
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2d Lt Cinthia W.
Thank you SSG Roger Ayscue Fortunately it isn't a situation where the individual threw the "I outrank you" card or is anything disciplinary. I was having a conversation with an Army Major about something that happened and had mentioned that this Airman was in SMP. He then preceded to tell me that on the Army side, a SMP Cadet would outrank all enlisted. I thought it was interesting as it was the first time I had heard that cadets out rank enlisted, in my 13 years in the ANG I dont believe I have had a situation like this. It is an interesting situation because my leadership never pushed down guidance on handling those in SMP so I have always looked at it to treat them as a subordinate. Lead, guide, teach as much as possible. If a disciplinary issue were to arise, treat the same as I would any other subordinate but also explain why as they will eventually become a commissioned officer.
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SSG Roger Ayscue
Good.
The SMP Program is designed to give the Officer trainee practical experience in both job and leadership. Those in the SMP that I have encountered in my career were top shelf and wanted to learn. As NCOs we are supposed to train young officers. They do not learn everything that they need to know in the ROTC or Academy Programs. That leaves it up to us as NCOs to finish rounding out his training.
Please remember this one rule that I taught all my troopers when they became NCOs: "For every single officer I have encountered in my career that did not trust his NCOs, somewhere in his background there was an NCO that did not do his job." This is original to me, but feel free to use it.
Thanks for stepping up and doing the job. Without professional NCOs, the Service falls apart and accomplishes nothing. Stay Strong and Stay in the front.
The SMP Program is designed to give the Officer trainee practical experience in both job and leadership. Those in the SMP that I have encountered in my career were top shelf and wanted to learn. As NCOs we are supposed to train young officers. They do not learn everything that they need to know in the ROTC or Academy Programs. That leaves it up to us as NCOs to finish rounding out his training.
Please remember this one rule that I taught all my troopers when they became NCOs: "For every single officer I have encountered in my career that did not trust his NCOs, somewhere in his background there was an NCO that did not do his job." This is original to me, but feel free to use it.
Thanks for stepping up and doing the job. Without professional NCOs, the Service falls apart and accomplishes nothing. Stay Strong and Stay in the front.
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2d Lt Cinthia W.
Thank you for the advice! I truly appreciate it, I want to make sure that I can help tailor this person's career and make them a stronger officer in the future. It was interesting to hear that they "automatically outrank the enlisted corp" when my friend told me that.
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Cadets do not outrank Army personnel save the grade they hold on papers. Cadets are not commissioned, therefore they outrank no one. If I am mistaken someone feel free to share with me that and e4 in the SMP outranks a MSG in the AF, Army etc.
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CSM Darieus ZaGara
If that is the case I stand corrected. I guess I never paid attention, having had ROTC students TDY in my units for decades, I never saw a challenge to NCO authority in any grade. SPC (Join to see)
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2d Lt Cinthia W.
It is definitely a unique situation. Yes they do, but then again they do not! Great discussion though!
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SPC (Join to see)
CSM Darieus ZaGara
As they SHOULD never do that. They understand their "real authority" which is jack shit. I was SMP in ROTC for 3 years and decided not to commission active duty to remain in the reserves for my civilian job.
As they SHOULD never do that. They understand their "real authority" which is jack shit. I was SMP in ROTC for 3 years and decided not to commission active duty to remain in the reserves for my civilian job.
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SSG Jason Penn
SPC (Join to see) - While you are correct as far as the table shows, you are also wrong. Para 2-8 sub para a section 3 states that a cadet may only be in a position of authority if not ineligible under para 2-15. para 2-15 sub para b states ineligibility as such, b. A student at a Service school or civilian institution or undergoing individual training, instruction, or temporary duty (TDY) enroute at a post where they are not a part of the command. Therefor, even though they have "superiority of rank", they have no command authority. Just like a CPT who is in an S-2 billet at BN has no command authority over a soldier in one of the Companies. This means that he/she can observe general military authority (make on the spot corrections), but is not in a position to issue orders. So, if something happened to the Company Commander and there are no other officers available, Command then goes to the 1SG over any Cadet that is there on TDY. As for the original question, AF does things differently, so I have no answer to the original question.
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