Posted on Jun 3, 2020
Are we giving our overweight soldiers bad advice?
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As an NCO, I observed it a million times... Overweight soldiers are seen as undisciplined sh*tbirds (which admittedly, sometimes they are..). But how many of our NCOs have educated themselves as to the most common causes of a soldier being overweight.. it's not what you think...
We tell our soldiers they should be eating less. We tell our soldiers they should be exercising more. We tell our soldiers to avoid high fat foods. All of which is generally, bad advice. The human body evolved to use fat as a fuel, and to use carbohydrates to fatten up for winter, when food is scarce. Some people are simply insulin resistant, which means they are more sensitive than most to this effect. They overeat carbohydrates such as bread, rice, sugar, fruit, etc. in even minor amounts, a 3-4lb weight gain per year is inevitable. Working out makes them hungrier. Reducing calories makes them hungrier, and even if they stick to it, reduces muscle mass, which reduces overall caloric expenditure.
Easy mode weight loss for overweight soldiers is simple: Avoid ALL carbs, and replace all the calories removed via carbohydrates with a moderate amount of healthy, non-hydrogenated fat. I wonder.. Is this being taught at PLDC? Or to individual soldiers in basic training?
We tell our soldiers they should be eating less. We tell our soldiers they should be exercising more. We tell our soldiers to avoid high fat foods. All of which is generally, bad advice. The human body evolved to use fat as a fuel, and to use carbohydrates to fatten up for winter, when food is scarce. Some people are simply insulin resistant, which means they are more sensitive than most to this effect. They overeat carbohydrates such as bread, rice, sugar, fruit, etc. in even minor amounts, a 3-4lb weight gain per year is inevitable. Working out makes them hungrier. Reducing calories makes them hungrier, and even if they stick to it, reduces muscle mass, which reduces overall caloric expenditure.
Easy mode weight loss for overweight soldiers is simple: Avoid ALL carbs, and replace all the calories removed via carbohydrates with a moderate amount of healthy, non-hydrogenated fat. I wonder.. Is this being taught at PLDC? Or to individual soldiers in basic training?
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That’s because that’s simply not true. Decades of dietary research has shown that long term weight loss is mostly calories in vs calories out. Low carb, high fat, and other fad diets that have been shown to help people lose weight quickly have also been shown to cause rapid weight gain again within one year.
Contrary to what CrossFit tells you, the majority of weight gain is not due to insulin resistance, or inflammatory response, and cavemen did not eat a diet devoid of grains.
Contrary to what CrossFit tells you, the majority of weight gain is not due to insulin resistance, or inflammatory response, and cavemen did not eat a diet devoid of grains.
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SGT Russell Chewning
SFC Casey O'Mally - You are absolutely repeating propaganda. Do you know why low intensity high duration exercise works? Because it depletes muscle glycogen, burns off all dietary carbohydrates, and then puts your body in a ketogenic state where it can access body fat for energy. There is a reason why personal trainers with zero knowledge of ketogenic states tell you that you need to do cardio for 30 minutes before you start burning fat. For people that consume carbs regularly, they are 100% correct. You spend the first 30 minutes burning off dietary carbs. Before you touch one single calorie of your bodyfat stores.
Or, you could just shortcut the entire process and simply cut out dietary carbs and go directly to burning fat from the minute you step on the treadmill. And at all moments of the day and night. Sleeping or awake. Your choice.
Does one NEED to necessarily cut all carbs out of their diet? If they are at a manageable weight, no. If they are severely overweight and don't want to waste the first 30 minutes of every cardio session before they start burning fat? YES, they do.
I've read hundreds of testimonials from people on keto who lost 100+ pounds in a year, with sky high energy levels pretty much the entire time, and expressed how "easy" the process seemed. I have also read testimonials from people on "regular diets" who lost the same amount of weight in the same amount of time through sheer force of will, and told of how extremely hard it was to force themselves to exercise. When you know the biochemistry, it is easy to see why.
Those on keto were basically mainlining fat for energy during their workouts, were experiencing increased metabolism. Those on "regular, moderate diets" were fighting reduced metabolisms due to reduced caloric intake and an inability to supplement workouts with bodyfat during the first periods of their cardio. Both were consuming the same amount of calories. This is all just basic science.
Or, you could just shortcut the entire process and simply cut out dietary carbs and go directly to burning fat from the minute you step on the treadmill. And at all moments of the day and night. Sleeping or awake. Your choice.
Does one NEED to necessarily cut all carbs out of their diet? If they are at a manageable weight, no. If they are severely overweight and don't want to waste the first 30 minutes of every cardio session before they start burning fat? YES, they do.
I've read hundreds of testimonials from people on keto who lost 100+ pounds in a year, with sky high energy levels pretty much the entire time, and expressed how "easy" the process seemed. I have also read testimonials from people on "regular diets" who lost the same amount of weight in the same amount of time through sheer force of will, and told of how extremely hard it was to force themselves to exercise. When you know the biochemistry, it is easy to see why.
Those on keto were basically mainlining fat for energy during their workouts, were experiencing increased metabolism. Those on "regular, moderate diets" were fighting reduced metabolisms due to reduced caloric intake and an inability to supplement workouts with bodyfat during the first periods of their cardio. Both were consuming the same amount of calories. This is all just basic science.
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SSgt Scott Ezra
You call low carb high fat "fad" diets, but the truth is along with high protein that's how our bodies have been set up to run for centuries.
You completely ignore that diabetes and obesity has risen far more since carbs were added into our diets large scale.
Yes, if you eat high protein, high fat, low carbs you will gain weight if you add in more carbs.
A small amount of carbs is fine, but the human body wasn't meant to eat a lot of carbs. Science proves this over and over. Your body will store fat if you eat a lot of carbs unless you have a high metabolism.
You said cavemen are grains. Which grains did they eat and what was the quantity? Think about it, how much grain would they have to eat to get the same amount of calories from a small animal or bird? They didn't have grocery stores and they expended a lot more calories than we did because they walked or ran everywhere they went. They also didn't have preservatives for grains, so they would have had to harvest every couple of days if their diets were based on that. They also wouldn't have been available from late fall to summer in most of the world. They would also be in competition with all of the grazing and fruit eating animals. Seriously, try to live off the grid for a couple of months and you'll see protein and fat is the answer. They were all off grid in those days.
Humans weren't really designed to eat most grains and no grasses. This is why gluten is such a problem. Celiac disease is one thing, but even without that a lot of grains cause health problems.
Ever notice that most herbivores have more than 1 stomach or a special valve?
This goes well beyond weight and affects health in serious ways.
Recently, science has shown that the reason that the human brain advanced so much from early man is protien. It correlates to when man developed the farming techniques to be able to have a steady protein supply available.
If you want actual science check out Dr Pran Yoganathan, he explains a lot of very complicated ideas very well. There are plenty if others out there as well that have no links to the sugar or grain industries and are more concerned with people's health.
You completely ignore that diabetes and obesity has risen far more since carbs were added into our diets large scale.
Yes, if you eat high protein, high fat, low carbs you will gain weight if you add in more carbs.
A small amount of carbs is fine, but the human body wasn't meant to eat a lot of carbs. Science proves this over and over. Your body will store fat if you eat a lot of carbs unless you have a high metabolism.
You said cavemen are grains. Which grains did they eat and what was the quantity? Think about it, how much grain would they have to eat to get the same amount of calories from a small animal or bird? They didn't have grocery stores and they expended a lot more calories than we did because they walked or ran everywhere they went. They also didn't have preservatives for grains, so they would have had to harvest every couple of days if their diets were based on that. They also wouldn't have been available from late fall to summer in most of the world. They would also be in competition with all of the grazing and fruit eating animals. Seriously, try to live off the grid for a couple of months and you'll see protein and fat is the answer. They were all off grid in those days.
Humans weren't really designed to eat most grains and no grasses. This is why gluten is such a problem. Celiac disease is one thing, but even without that a lot of grains cause health problems.
Ever notice that most herbivores have more than 1 stomach or a special valve?
This goes well beyond weight and affects health in serious ways.
Recently, science has shown that the reason that the human brain advanced so much from early man is protien. It correlates to when man developed the farming techniques to be able to have a steady protein supply available.
If you want actual science check out Dr Pran Yoganathan, he explains a lot of very complicated ideas very well. There are plenty if others out there as well that have no links to the sugar or grain industries and are more concerned with people's health.
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SSgt Scott Ezra
SFC (Join to see) I guess you might have a point if I had said that early humans never ate grains, which I didn't. So, well done in countering a claim that no one made.
I noticed you didn't answer any of the points I actually made.
Also, that article used the word "may." As in they may have, but they also may not have. Haha. This is more of a faith based belief than anything to justify a lifestyle.
Any honest GI doctor would tell you that grasses are absolutely horrible for the human digestive system. Our bodies aren't designed to process them and they can be destructive. Small amounts are fine, but the more you eat the more damage they cause.
This is illustrated quite clearly in the conversion processes. A human can eat all protein and fat with 0 carbs and the body will convert protein into carbs for essential processes like brain function. However, if you eat all carbs with no protein or fat your body will start cannibalizing muscles and you will eventually die. It's very clear and actual provable science. Now, before you start in I'm not saying that most people should do that, because they shouldn't for many reasons. However, the carnivore diet has been shown to vastly benefit some people with certain diabetes issues and autoimmune diseases.
I noticed you didn't answer any of the points I actually made.
Also, that article used the word "may." As in they may have, but they also may not have. Haha. This is more of a faith based belief than anything to justify a lifestyle.
Any honest GI doctor would tell you that grasses are absolutely horrible for the human digestive system. Our bodies aren't designed to process them and they can be destructive. Small amounts are fine, but the more you eat the more damage they cause.
This is illustrated quite clearly in the conversion processes. A human can eat all protein and fat with 0 carbs and the body will convert protein into carbs for essential processes like brain function. However, if you eat all carbs with no protein or fat your body will start cannibalizing muscles and you will eventually die. It's very clear and actual provable science. Now, before you start in I'm not saying that most people should do that, because they shouldn't for many reasons. However, the carnivore diet has been shown to vastly benefit some people with certain diabetes issues and autoimmune diseases.
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Going keto is the flavor of the month for weight loss. It is near impossible to do in field environments, expensive for the military to afford, and just isn't what is necessary. Weight loss is simple, as SFC (Join to see) pointed out - Calories in < Calories burned - no matter what you eat. You could do nothing but big macs and it works.
No they don't teach keto diet anywhere because it isn't practical, and like was mentioned, many people relapse over it.
You may like the keto diet and it may work for some people. but is not sustainable in the military.
No they don't teach keto diet anywhere because it isn't practical, and like was mentioned, many people relapse over it.
You may like the keto diet and it may work for some people. but is not sustainable in the military.
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SGT Russell Chewning
Oh, stop it. Now you are just being a lazy leader. The vast majority of soldiers are not in a deployed environment. Those who are not deployed, are either married with full control of what they eat, or single soldiers with access to chow halls that serve baked chicken or some sort of pork or beef product without added sauces at every lunch/dinner meal. And breakfast ALWAYS has sausage, bacon, and eggs available. Even those who ARE in deployed environments, whether married or single, have access to these same chow hall options downrange. As a contractor, I was in Afghanistan for 6 months, and lost a significant amount of weight by avoiding carbs. I MIGHT have walked half a mile a day.
You are simply parroting what you've heard about keto being a fad. I've actually checked out the science behind insulin response and the part it plays in fat storage, and what happens from a scientific perspective when carbs are restricted. The fat cells open up and dump their contents into the blood stream for use when a person gets fat-adapted.
There is a strong bias in upper NCO leadership when it comes to this subject, because as a general rule, most didn't struggle with their weight when they were young, which made them more likely to get promoted. Which means upper level NCOs more than likely as a group are not genetically insulin resistant. Or you had a wife that just never cooked a lot of carb heavy meals. Or were a woman that inherently knew that carbs make you fat (that was actually the "common knowledge"prior to 1950, for your information).
Tim Noakes.... Robert Lustig... Gary Taubes. Two are doctors with heavy research experience in this field. One is an investigative science journalist who will open you eyes to how America got fat and diabetic. Plenty of videos on Youtube, but most go over the same information. So just pick 1 or 2 from each. I can lead a horse to water, but I cannot make them think. Overweight soldiers is an increasing trend, covered by military news sources. So you are gonna have to deal with the issue. You can just assume they are all just poor examples of humanity, and throw about disparaging remarks about their lack of self discipline, or you can spend maybe 2 hours of your time and watch a few videos that give you the solution to problems your soldiers WILL be facing in the immediate future. Or you can just be that oldschool hardass who chapters a lot of fat soldiers. Your choice.
You are simply parroting what you've heard about keto being a fad. I've actually checked out the science behind insulin response and the part it plays in fat storage, and what happens from a scientific perspective when carbs are restricted. The fat cells open up and dump their contents into the blood stream for use when a person gets fat-adapted.
There is a strong bias in upper NCO leadership when it comes to this subject, because as a general rule, most didn't struggle with their weight when they were young, which made them more likely to get promoted. Which means upper level NCOs more than likely as a group are not genetically insulin resistant. Or you had a wife that just never cooked a lot of carb heavy meals. Or were a woman that inherently knew that carbs make you fat (that was actually the "common knowledge"prior to 1950, for your information).
Tim Noakes.... Robert Lustig... Gary Taubes. Two are doctors with heavy research experience in this field. One is an investigative science journalist who will open you eyes to how America got fat and diabetic. Plenty of videos on Youtube, but most go over the same information. So just pick 1 or 2 from each. I can lead a horse to water, but I cannot make them think. Overweight soldiers is an increasing trend, covered by military news sources. So you are gonna have to deal with the issue. You can just assume they are all just poor examples of humanity, and throw about disparaging remarks about their lack of self discipline, or you can spend maybe 2 hours of your time and watch a few videos that give you the solution to problems your soldiers WILL be facing in the immediate future. Or you can just be that oldschool hardass who chapters a lot of fat soldiers. Your choice.
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CW2 (Join to see)
SGT Russell Chewning I have never chaptered a soldier, let alone for being on ABCP. Knock off the assumptions.
Just because you feel you're right doesn't mean you are. We aren't saying that a keto diet doesn't produce results, just that its not doable for the military. Im sure as a 74G you get your 3 square and don't have to worry about patrolling, living in austere environments, etc where you eat whatever is available...if at all.
If you wish to have a professional discussion that's fine, but this attitude you have is out of control.
And its "lead a horse to water bu can't make it DRINK" not think...
Just because you feel you're right doesn't mean you are. We aren't saying that a keto diet doesn't produce results, just that its not doable for the military. Im sure as a 74G you get your 3 square and don't have to worry about patrolling, living in austere environments, etc where you eat whatever is available...if at all.
If you wish to have a professional discussion that's fine, but this attitude you have is out of control.
And its "lead a horse to water bu can't make it DRINK" not think...
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SGT Russell Chewning
CW2 (Join to see) - Lol.. I wrote exactly what I mean to with the horse quote, btw..... :-)
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Any advice given on weight-loss should come a nutritionist. Yes yes burn more calories than you consume and you will lose weight. But everyone is not exactly the same and as leaders we can share info but chances are we aren’t nutritionists (some maybe) and shouldn’t develop a plan for others. You may require less calories a day to fuel your body than I do- I was shocked when I had someone show me that I was actually not taking in enough calories. Felt way better and more productive during the day with that correction and my weight loss actually picked up!
We should know the basics and general nutrition should be taught across the board but when it comes to specifics I really think that we should defer to the SME’s.
We should know the basics and general nutrition should be taught across the board but when it comes to specifics I really think that we should defer to the SME’s.
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SGT Russell Chewning
CW2 (Join to see) - Okay.. seems like we are getting somewhere.. No, we can't "order" a soldier to eat specific stuff. But what we can do is educate ourselves on how fat storage works, and let the soldier know that there is a possible alternate theory as to why they don't seem to be able to lose the weight.. And encourage them to look into it. If you give them the information and they don't act on it, by all means, drop the P.T. hammer on them five days a week.
And I posted it elsewhere in this thread, but here is my real concern... Sugar is basically a poison that has some particularly bad effects on the human body, well apart and beyond mere weight gain. And we've known about it for decades..... So, I categorically refuse to believe it is not "practical" for a soldier to lose weight this way. it only requires carb restriction for a short period of a month or two, then scaling back to moderating carb/sugar intake. from that point on.
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/09/13/493739074/50-years-ago-sugar-industry-quietly-paid-scientists-to-point-blame-at-fat
And I posted it elsewhere in this thread, but here is my real concern... Sugar is basically a poison that has some particularly bad effects on the human body, well apart and beyond mere weight gain. And we've known about it for decades..... So, I categorically refuse to believe it is not "practical" for a soldier to lose weight this way. it only requires carb restriction for a short period of a month or two, then scaling back to moderating carb/sugar intake. from that point on.
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/09/13/493739074/50-years-ago-sugar-industry-quietly-paid-scientists-to-point-blame-at-fat
50 Years Ago, Sugar Industry Quietly Paid Scientists To Point Blame At Fat
Documents show that in the '60s, the sugar industry funded Harvard researchers who, examining risk factors of heart disease, dismissed concerns about sugar and doubled down on the dangers of fat.
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SGT Russell Chewning
CW2 (Join to see) - And another interesting development from around the same time... The vegetable industry lobbied for government to declare vegetable oils to be healthier than animal fats... So, the junk food that gets our soldiers fat? What's in it? Added sugar and transfats (vegetable oils). Donuts... Carbs... sugar... Transfat. All things that are not meat, real vegetables, and animal fats.
And a correction to your statement. We can't pull all the carbs.. But we CAN correctly label the foods properly in the chow hall to correctly state that high carb foods, NOT fat, promote weight gain. Right now, we have those two reversed.
And a correction to your statement. We can't pull all the carbs.. But we CAN correctly label the foods properly in the chow hall to correctly state that high carb foods, NOT fat, promote weight gain. Right now, we have those two reversed.
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CW2 (Join to see)
SGT Russell Chewning sugar is necessary for life. As im sure you know, fat and carbs are broken down into sugar for use as energy. All of this "big sugar" stuff may very well be true. The point is and I say again
1. We are not bodybuilders, we require different intake and measuring than they do, they should not be a reference in anything the military does.
2 its the government, money is always an object
3 keto works because it puts the body in starvation mode. Not somewhere it wants to be normally, and not where it wants to be for any length of time.
I lost 11 lbs in 4 days at SERE, because I was forced into ketosis by not having any food. Was it all good loss? No, it included muscle mass.
If you are interested in army fitness and nutrition, I urge you to talk to the nearest THOR3 facility.
1. We are not bodybuilders, we require different intake and measuring than they do, they should not be a reference in anything the military does.
2 its the government, money is always an object
3 keto works because it puts the body in starvation mode. Not somewhere it wants to be normally, and not where it wants to be for any length of time.
I lost 11 lbs in 4 days at SERE, because I was forced into ketosis by not having any food. Was it all good loss? No, it included muscle mass.
If you are interested in army fitness and nutrition, I urge you to talk to the nearest THOR3 facility.
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SGT Russell Chewning
CW2 (Join to see) - Good feedback. I don't know if I agree with the statement that "keto puts the body in starvation mode".
Is the body in a ketogenic state when IN starvation mode? Absolutely! But in starvation mode, the metabolism is reduced, which lowers overall energy levels. With a moderate caloric restriction, say 1600 calories a day for a male currently at 230lbs, one is not in starvation mode, but one is in a ketogenic state if they've restricted carbs out of their diet.
Muscle loss IS an issue during ketosis, that must be addressed with consuming enough protein and getting some physical exercise. I fully acknowledge that. I do know that I am many others I have got to try a proper version of keto experienced super high energy levels once they became fat adapted, as long as they kept dietary calories at a certain minimal level. This is what gets fatties off the sofa and moving, not "motivation" per se. When your cells are generating tons of extra energy from the fat cells dumping their contents for fuel, it is literally intolerable to sit still.
And there is a very big different with consumed sugar and glucose broken down from fat from gluconeogenesis. Consumed sugar requires insulin to be generated to stop us from going into a coma from all the sugar in our blood. Gluconeogenesis generates sugars on-demand for critical brain functions. The body can get almost everything it needs from fat and protein, and if the fat and protein is from animal sources, we tend to get all needed vitamins via the flesh consumed. Artic explorer Vilhjalmur Stefansson spent a number of years with the Inuits, eating nothing but meat and fish. No nutritional deficiencies whatsoever, and the scientific community when he got back home was just as skeptical as people today. He submitted to a hospital stay where his diet was restricted to only meat and fat for six months, and the results were the same, shocking the scientific community.
Not that I am in any way advocating a zero-carb diet, as that would get old pretty quick. I am just making the point that much of what we have been taught about healthy diets in America is complete and utter bullsh!t. As evidenced by the obesity and diabetes rates. Some estimates have 25% of the population being diabetic, with another 25% being pre-diabetic, if not more.
Is the body in a ketogenic state when IN starvation mode? Absolutely! But in starvation mode, the metabolism is reduced, which lowers overall energy levels. With a moderate caloric restriction, say 1600 calories a day for a male currently at 230lbs, one is not in starvation mode, but one is in a ketogenic state if they've restricted carbs out of their diet.
Muscle loss IS an issue during ketosis, that must be addressed with consuming enough protein and getting some physical exercise. I fully acknowledge that. I do know that I am many others I have got to try a proper version of keto experienced super high energy levels once they became fat adapted, as long as they kept dietary calories at a certain minimal level. This is what gets fatties off the sofa and moving, not "motivation" per se. When your cells are generating tons of extra energy from the fat cells dumping their contents for fuel, it is literally intolerable to sit still.
And there is a very big different with consumed sugar and glucose broken down from fat from gluconeogenesis. Consumed sugar requires insulin to be generated to stop us from going into a coma from all the sugar in our blood. Gluconeogenesis generates sugars on-demand for critical brain functions. The body can get almost everything it needs from fat and protein, and if the fat and protein is from animal sources, we tend to get all needed vitamins via the flesh consumed. Artic explorer Vilhjalmur Stefansson spent a number of years with the Inuits, eating nothing but meat and fish. No nutritional deficiencies whatsoever, and the scientific community when he got back home was just as skeptical as people today. He submitted to a hospital stay where his diet was restricted to only meat and fat for six months, and the results were the same, shocking the scientific community.
Not that I am in any way advocating a zero-carb diet, as that would get old pretty quick. I am just making the point that much of what we have been taught about healthy diets in America is complete and utter bullsh!t. As evidenced by the obesity and diabetes rates. Some estimates have 25% of the population being diabetic, with another 25% being pre-diabetic, if not more.
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