Posted on Feb 29, 2020
Has toxic leadership affected your decision on staying or separating the military service?
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Service Members and retired personnel, I am doing a research on how toxic leadership affects the service members career progression specifically at the time of deciding whether they want to stay in service or not.
Most of us have had a first line leader, or company leadership that we can classify as toxic. The Army officially calls these leaders "Counterproductive Leaders". Now, I'm not talking about the leaders who enforce the standards, and I'm not trying to defend the Soldiers who give below the minimum and try to blame it on others. My intent is to pick the brain of those enlisted and officers who had a great career plan and couldn't handle the treat by their leaders, or simply did not receive any leadership at all.
ADP 6-22, 31 July 2019: The term toxic has been used when describing leaders who have engaged in what the Army now refers to as counterproductive leadership behaviors.
American Military University
COMM120
Most of us have had a first line leader, or company leadership that we can classify as toxic. The Army officially calls these leaders "Counterproductive Leaders". Now, I'm not talking about the leaders who enforce the standards, and I'm not trying to defend the Soldiers who give below the minimum and try to blame it on others. My intent is to pick the brain of those enlisted and officers who had a great career plan and couldn't handle the treat by their leaders, or simply did not receive any leadership at all.
ADP 6-22, 31 July 2019: The term toxic has been used when describing leaders who have engaged in what the Army now refers to as counterproductive leadership behaviors.
American Military University
COMM120
Toxic Leadership
Retention
Research
Posted 5 y ago
Responses: 13
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It had zero impact. I tried to learn from both the great and not so great leaders, and adjust my conduct accordingly. I don't remember very many in charge that were sub standard for their grade.
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SPC Jerry Jones
When I served (1983 - 1990), all the leaders I encountered did what they were supposed to and got it right for the most part. The reason I left was the reenlisting department and non-promotions.
I jumped at the chance to join the Army after high school, and didn't give too much thought into what I wanted to do in the military, and later on became stagnant, and wanted a change in order to challenge myself and broaden my scope. I told the reenlistment officer I wanted to go Airborne/Special Forces if possible, or something more challenging than what I was doing. He stated that I had too much training behind me to waste it on lowering myself to being in those MOS's. I took that as an insult to the Airborne/Special Forces, and also to myself as they didn't care if I reenlisted or not. I was previously working in hydraulics, mechanics, electronics on HAWK missiles and Bradley Fighting Vehicles/Turrets. I was E-4 (promotable) and had 7 years under my belt.
The promotions were stagnant, there was no room for moving up, and nobody seemed to be pushing the soldiers to better themselves and further their military education and skills. When I was working on the HAWK systems, they phased it out, and I lost practically all of my promotion points when moving into the Bradley field. I was pretty much starting at zero promotion points as an E-3, which put me behind the current E-3's in the new unit.
I promoted to E-4, and since there were so many of us, there were very few promotions in the entire Brigade, and feeling as if I hit a dead end, THAT is why I left the service.
I regret it now, and think I should have toughed it out, but back then doing 12 more years in a never-ending drone state, doing something I didn't have a definite fire for, would have dragged me down big time.
I live to be challenged, and the Army prevented me from doing that. I wanted a Military career, constantly being challenged, and they just wanted a placeholder number in the unit.
So, in some minor ways it was the leaders, but mostly it was all the red tape and policies keeping me from staying in. If they would have let me advance into new territory, I would have stayed for the long haul.
I jumped at the chance to join the Army after high school, and didn't give too much thought into what I wanted to do in the military, and later on became stagnant, and wanted a change in order to challenge myself and broaden my scope. I told the reenlistment officer I wanted to go Airborne/Special Forces if possible, or something more challenging than what I was doing. He stated that I had too much training behind me to waste it on lowering myself to being in those MOS's. I took that as an insult to the Airborne/Special Forces, and also to myself as they didn't care if I reenlisted or not. I was previously working in hydraulics, mechanics, electronics on HAWK missiles and Bradley Fighting Vehicles/Turrets. I was E-4 (promotable) and had 7 years under my belt.
The promotions were stagnant, there was no room for moving up, and nobody seemed to be pushing the soldiers to better themselves and further their military education and skills. When I was working on the HAWK systems, they phased it out, and I lost practically all of my promotion points when moving into the Bradley field. I was pretty much starting at zero promotion points as an E-3, which put me behind the current E-3's in the new unit.
I promoted to E-4, and since there were so many of us, there were very few promotions in the entire Brigade, and feeling as if I hit a dead end, THAT is why I left the service.
I regret it now, and think I should have toughed it out, but back then doing 12 more years in a never-ending drone state, doing something I didn't have a definite fire for, would have dragged me down big time.
I live to be challenged, and the Army prevented me from doing that. I wanted a Military career, constantly being challenged, and they just wanted a placeholder number in the unit.
So, in some minor ways it was the leaders, but mostly it was all the red tape and policies keeping me from staying in. If they would have let me advance into new territory, I would have stayed for the long haul.
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SSG (Join to see)
Jones, What I'm gathering is that it wasn't the leaders treat or behavior towards you what made you take the decision, but the lack of support and advice on how to further your career. Does that sound about right?
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You have good leaders and bad leaders, or the latest buzzword for bad leaders. Bad leadership should not be a factor in someone leaving the military. Do you think the civilian world does not have as many bad leaders?
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SGT Robert Wager
Sgt (Join to see) The conversation is about toxic leadership and how it affects soldier retention.
A soldier’s perception is his reality. Discipline only gets you so far. You have to buy into the program. A single toxic leader can ruin a good soldier and he will ETS.
The reality is a commander good or bad can charge and convict a soldier and put him a jail cell. That is a fact. Now put that power in the hands of someone who abuses it.
A soldier’s perception is his reality. Discipline only gets you so far. You have to buy into the program. A single toxic leader can ruin a good soldier and he will ETS.
The reality is a commander good or bad can charge and convict a soldier and put him a jail cell. That is a fact. Now put that power in the hands of someone who abuses it.
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SGT Chris Stephens
But the difference in the civilian world as opposed to the military is you can just leave a company if you want to if you have bad leadership. You can't exactly do that in the military.
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Sgt (Join to see)
SGT Chris Stephens - Leadership changes over time and you can expect to have new leadership. Sometimes you need to adapt and overcome and be resilient. Sometimes it is the subordinate that is the difficult party and likes to shift blame.
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SGT Chris Stephens
Sgt (Join to see) - You're absolutely right. However, even though leadership changes, if a young servicemember has had bad experiences with leadership (toxic or otherwise) at their first and second duty stations, it's absolutely going to affect them reenlisting.
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