Posted on Dec 5, 2019
What are your thoughts on the Army Automatic Promotion system and implementation?
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My personal opinion: it would be generally good, for specifically soldiers with toxic command. I’ve seen in the past soldiers who’s leadership holds a grudge and makes it impossible for them to be promoted. Overall, in the typical unit, it’s very flawed I feel though.
I’ll be the first to say....my current command isn’t great. That being said, they still listen to the recommendations of the lower level leaders and understand that they know their soldiers, will send them to the promotion board as SOON as they believe the soldier is ready to be a leader, and try to develop soldiers who are not yet fit for the title Non-Commissioned Officer. In just the almost 2 years I have seen 3 soldiers who “ride” the systems benefits and do the bare minimum be automatically promoted. All 3 have come onto the Automatic Promotion Lists. Even my command agrees these soldiers have no business being promoted yet the Squadron command doesn’t want to do the work of writing a non-promotion recommendation. These guys get boarded and almost always pass because our MOS is so understrengthed mixed with the fact that any idiot can memorize information even without knowing what it means or how to implement said knowledge.
The problem is this is becoming a continuous cycle. We then get a weaker Corps, which deters the quality soldiers from re-enlisting. The NCOs in question don’t necessarily do anything WRONG but do the same thing they’ve always done: the bare minimum and riding on everyone else to carry them through field problems, work in general etc. Because we then are losing soldiers and the better NCOS sick of pulling the additional weight with not much tangible reward, we then continue to promote whoever. Of course there is the “you’ll be first to get to SSG promotion board” but that takes time....
I can’t talk on other branches....but as of right now, the scout world is heavily suffering. Our discipline, professionalism and good leadership is dwindling. I feel my hands are tied as well. I can try my pants off developing my subordinates but at the end of the day, they will only grow if they want to.
I think instead of having the automatic promotion list, they need to make a form that a soldier who would be put into said list submits with their counseling packet to a higher chain explaining why they haven’t yet been boarded but are qualified for primary zone, that they want to be or not and why they think they would make a good asset to the NCO Corps. There should also be a section for the soldiers leadership from platoon level, company level and stops at the battalion level.
There may be better solutions, but overall, I don’t believe in this new system. It’s pumping out non-quality leaders left and right. There is a reason these soldiers aren’t sent to the promotion board. Sometimes there are oddities, and I’ve seen some of these anomalies That really wanted it and felt unfairly treated send THEMSELVES to the board before. Overall, this system seems to be hindering the quality of our units rather than helping though.
What are yalls thoughts on this? Do you agree or disagree? Does anyone have positive experiences with this they’d like to share? I would like any other different perspectives that might help me see why this is better for us than not having it, because in the CAV world, the ones that “slip through the cracks” and don’t get boarded are basically unicorns.
I’ll be the first to say....my current command isn’t great. That being said, they still listen to the recommendations of the lower level leaders and understand that they know their soldiers, will send them to the promotion board as SOON as they believe the soldier is ready to be a leader, and try to develop soldiers who are not yet fit for the title Non-Commissioned Officer. In just the almost 2 years I have seen 3 soldiers who “ride” the systems benefits and do the bare minimum be automatically promoted. All 3 have come onto the Automatic Promotion Lists. Even my command agrees these soldiers have no business being promoted yet the Squadron command doesn’t want to do the work of writing a non-promotion recommendation. These guys get boarded and almost always pass because our MOS is so understrengthed mixed with the fact that any idiot can memorize information even without knowing what it means or how to implement said knowledge.
The problem is this is becoming a continuous cycle. We then get a weaker Corps, which deters the quality soldiers from re-enlisting. The NCOs in question don’t necessarily do anything WRONG but do the same thing they’ve always done: the bare minimum and riding on everyone else to carry them through field problems, work in general etc. Because we then are losing soldiers and the better NCOS sick of pulling the additional weight with not much tangible reward, we then continue to promote whoever. Of course there is the “you’ll be first to get to SSG promotion board” but that takes time....
I can’t talk on other branches....but as of right now, the scout world is heavily suffering. Our discipline, professionalism and good leadership is dwindling. I feel my hands are tied as well. I can try my pants off developing my subordinates but at the end of the day, they will only grow if they want to.
I think instead of having the automatic promotion list, they need to make a form that a soldier who would be put into said list submits with their counseling packet to a higher chain explaining why they haven’t yet been boarded but are qualified for primary zone, that they want to be or not and why they think they would make a good asset to the NCO Corps. There should also be a section for the soldiers leadership from platoon level, company level and stops at the battalion level.
There may be better solutions, but overall, I don’t believe in this new system. It’s pumping out non-quality leaders left and right. There is a reason these soldiers aren’t sent to the promotion board. Sometimes there are oddities, and I’ve seen some of these anomalies That really wanted it and felt unfairly treated send THEMSELVES to the board before. Overall, this system seems to be hindering the quality of our units rather than helping though.
What are yalls thoughts on this? Do you agree or disagree? Does anyone have positive experiences with this they’d like to share? I would like any other different perspectives that might help me see why this is better for us than not having it, because in the CAV world, the ones that “slip through the cracks” and don’t get boarded are basically unicorns.
Section Leader
Section Sergeant
Team Leader
Promotion Board
Promotions
Posted 5 y ago
Responses: 3
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While I do not think the current board system is the best possible way to select troops fpr promotion, I myself cannot concieve of a better one which is both fair AND allows local leaders input on the Soldiers THEY know best. Automatic promotions should have no part of it. None. I don't even think we should have automatic promotions for PV2. Either you deserve to be promoted or you do not.
I had a CSM tell me that if the promotion rate after 4 years for Officers from 1LT to CPT was 95%, then we should be making sure 95% of enlisted make SGT in 4 years, as well. He wanted to board everyone possible and recommend everyone who appeared, even if they saluted with their left hand. I was absolutely flabbergasted. I disagreed violently with him, and (in private and during an "open season" discussion) that he was watering down the NCO Corps and that he was the reason Officer didn't trust NCOs. I feel the exact same way about automated integration lists.
(He did not appreciate my feedback, but he was man enough not to hold it against me, I am glad to say.)
I had a CSM tell me that if the promotion rate after 4 years for Officers from 1LT to CPT was 95%, then we should be making sure 95% of enlisted make SGT in 4 years, as well. He wanted to board everyone possible and recommend everyone who appeared, even if they saluted with their left hand. I was absolutely flabbergasted. I disagreed violently with him, and (in private and during an "open season" discussion) that he was watering down the NCO Corps and that he was the reason Officer didn't trust NCOs. I feel the exact same way about automated integration lists.
(He did not appreciate my feedback, but he was man enough not to hold it against me, I am glad to say.)
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I think the new incarnation of STEP is better in the sense it is less ad hoc or arbitrary in who at least gets presented to a promotion board. It eliminates a lot of that "opinionated" aspect of who commands think is ready to promote and who isn't. I have seen several great soldiers get delays in their promotions or not even get to the board because their commands did little to help them or simply impeded their way to promotion because they didn't "jive". I certainly believe there will be people who are promoted with little motivation or desire to be NCOs, but at least no one can't say there isn't a more equal playing field than when everyone has to appear before a board.
I think a bigger problem (speaking as a reservist) is that every board convened essentiatlly creates its own template and often gets a little bit too individualized - I submitted two packets with essentially the same basic information two very different ways to two different commands looking for two different things in its NCOs - and neither of these packets neccessarily demonstrated my subject matter expertise. I may be speaking a little out of turn, however I think the army as a whole needs to re think this part of the process and may want to look at its sister services for guidance.
I think a bigger problem (speaking as a reservist) is that every board convened essentiatlly creates its own template and often gets a little bit too individualized - I submitted two packets with essentially the same basic information two very different ways to two different commands looking for two different things in its NCOs - and neither of these packets neccessarily demonstrated my subject matter expertise. I may be speaking a little out of turn, however I think the army as a whole needs to re think this part of the process and may want to look at its sister services for guidance.
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SSG (Join to see)
That’s a valid point.
Perhaps the bigger problem is the boarding process. The problem is the level of difficulty is synonymous with the number of NCO positions my squadron has to fill. This last board I took a soldier (totally deserved to pass anyways) and his board has literally the following:
“SPC Brandon’s sponsor, go ahead in.”
“Good morning CSM, I am...”
“Yeah yeah, Brandon’s sponsor, go sit down....”
Soldier reports, is asked what his strengths and weaknesses are and told to say the creed. He says a total of 3 and a half lines and gets an pass....
The board process has been very similar for us the past couple years. SPC Brandon could have not known shit. Luckily he’s a good soldier but I’ve seen others who definitely were not.
Perhaps the bigger problem is the boarding process. The problem is the level of difficulty is synonymous with the number of NCO positions my squadron has to fill. This last board I took a soldier (totally deserved to pass anyways) and his board has literally the following:
“SPC Brandon’s sponsor, go ahead in.”
“Good morning CSM, I am...”
“Yeah yeah, Brandon’s sponsor, go sit down....”
Soldier reports, is asked what his strengths and weaknesses are and told to say the creed. He says a total of 3 and a half lines and gets an pass....
The board process has been very similar for us the past couple years. SPC Brandon could have not known shit. Luckily he’s a good soldier but I’ve seen others who definitely were not.
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When I was in you had to be in with the click to get boarded. Didn’t want to get out did due to promotional future was dim and mentoring was very weak and low.
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