Posted on Nov 10, 2013
Cliques in the Army. Good 'Ol Boys, Masons, Audie Murphy Board winners and the unfair treatment between them.
68K
299
98
25
25
0
In AIT, I witnessed a brand new soldier receive special treatment because he and the Sr Drill Sgt were both Masons. I have seen a SFC get out of serious trouble because he and the 1SG were both Masons. I watched an NCO walk into and out a promotion board in less than 2 minutes because they were an Audie Murphy Board winner. I have also been involved in a situation due to an SNCO taking offense to something I said (F-Bomb) and informed me that it wouldn't be tolerated but then while around his fellow SNCOs they used the same profanity loosely without issue. Have you witnessed any of these? How do you feel about this? Is there something that can be done about this?
Army
Awards
Freemasons
Sergeant Audie Murphy Club (SAMC)
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 55
94
94
0
I will address your question while omitting everyone else's comments. I had a 1SG tell me once, "perseption IS reality". Because of that I always aim to be as transparent, fair, and impartial as possible at all times and teach my Soldiers to do the same.
1. Always do the right thing in and out of uniform and you will not be stuck in the same predicament (ever) as that SFC who got in trouble. If you're second guessing yourself whether something is right or wrong...then 100% of the times it will be wrong.
2. Stop assuming things SGT (P) Spangler. That will get you in a lot of heat. If you want the same treatment as that Audie Murphy Board winner...be one. I always admire those who have gone above and beyond. 2 minutes, 30 seconds, 15 seconds; the fact of the matter is has proven himself already.
3. Being a proffesional means cleaning your vocabulary. Regardless of what you see or hear, always aim to be better then those.
Finally, are there "cliques" in the military, YES, most definitely. Is everyone fairly treated, of course NOT. The only thing you can do about this is set the example, be the example, teach your Soldiers the right things...and your ethical ways will rub off on your leaders and peers.
Matthew 5:47 - "If you greet only your own people, what more are you doing than others? Even people who are ungodly (unethical, wrongful) do that."
"Be, Know, Do" my friend.
1. Always do the right thing in and out of uniform and you will not be stuck in the same predicament (ever) as that SFC who got in trouble. If you're second guessing yourself whether something is right or wrong...then 100% of the times it will be wrong.
2. Stop assuming things SGT (P) Spangler. That will get you in a lot of heat. If you want the same treatment as that Audie Murphy Board winner...be one. I always admire those who have gone above and beyond. 2 minutes, 30 seconds, 15 seconds; the fact of the matter is has proven himself already.
3. Being a proffesional means cleaning your vocabulary. Regardless of what you see or hear, always aim to be better then those.
Finally, are there "cliques" in the military, YES, most definitely. Is everyone fairly treated, of course NOT. The only thing you can do about this is set the example, be the example, teach your Soldiers the right things...and your ethical ways will rub off on your leaders and peers.
Matthew 5:47 - "If you greet only your own people, what more are you doing than others? Even people who are ungodly (unethical, wrongful) do that."
"Be, Know, Do" my friend.
(94)
(0)
SSG (Join to see)
SPC Oscar Coco Really? That's the only "productive" response you could come up with?
(0)
(1)
31
31
0
Let me address this as an NCO and a Freemason. First off I will admit that I am totally against these boards. To me they are not an indication of leadership ability, they are an indication of memory ability. I have seen A LOT of piss poor leaders hiding behind that medallion. As a matter of fact I recently had two of my Battle Staff students that were members but couldn't plot on a map.
I have seen people sent before these boards with made up squads, meaning all of the top PT kids were assigned to them on paper in order to make their leaders book look good. I have seen made up ( pencil whipped APFT and weapons cards) for candidates that we're being groomed by a buddy.
Once I attended a pre-board and when they asked why I didn't have a 300 pt score I said because I couldn't score 300, they obviously didn't like that answer but they especially didn't like it when I asked what Audie Murphy's pt score was?
Anyhow, now as a Freemason I will tell you from my point of view using our affiliation for preferential treatment in the Army is 1000% wrong. In fact it would be considered unmasonic conduct. Our fraternity is a philanthropic group working for the betterment of mankind. Yes we have an obligation to our brethren but it is not for personal or political gain. Those that use it for that bring shame on the order. Many of my co-workers have no idea that I am a Mason but it's not because I choose to keep it covert but because it has no place in the workplace. My duties and obligations to the order are outside the Army. The only time I will even mention it to others is if they are also a brother and I want to invite them to a barbecue or meeting or something related to our order.
Unfortunately there are lodges out there that despite our rules actually go out and recruit members. This recruitment in most cases draws the wrong people to the order. I don't care if they are 3 letter or 4, Blue Lodge or PHA, we have rules and those that violate them bring shame and discredit to our order. I know if I saw someone trying to get special treatment I wouldn't hesitate to confront them.
I have seen people sent before these boards with made up squads, meaning all of the top PT kids were assigned to them on paper in order to make their leaders book look good. I have seen made up ( pencil whipped APFT and weapons cards) for candidates that we're being groomed by a buddy.
Once I attended a pre-board and when they asked why I didn't have a 300 pt score I said because I couldn't score 300, they obviously didn't like that answer but they especially didn't like it when I asked what Audie Murphy's pt score was?
Anyhow, now as a Freemason I will tell you from my point of view using our affiliation for preferential treatment in the Army is 1000% wrong. In fact it would be considered unmasonic conduct. Our fraternity is a philanthropic group working for the betterment of mankind. Yes we have an obligation to our brethren but it is not for personal or political gain. Those that use it for that bring shame on the order. Many of my co-workers have no idea that I am a Mason but it's not because I choose to keep it covert but because it has no place in the workplace. My duties and obligations to the order are outside the Army. The only time I will even mention it to others is if they are also a brother and I want to invite them to a barbecue or meeting or something related to our order.
Unfortunately there are lodges out there that despite our rules actually go out and recruit members. This recruitment in most cases draws the wrong people to the order. I don't care if they are 3 letter or 4, Blue Lodge or PHA, we have rules and those that violate them bring shame and discredit to our order. I know if I saw someone trying to get special treatment I wouldn't hesitate to confront them.
(31)
(0)
SFC (Join to see)
Thank you for that response SFC Grudzinski. I appreciate your honesty and personal observations.
(0)
(0)
MSgt Gary J Csizmar
I agree that promotion boards can be a pain. Years ago I sat on one and a Marine Cpl was promoted basically because he looked good in uniform and scored high on a PFT and the Bn Sgt/Maj liked him! We were in a Maintenance Company and this guy did not know his job as was a lousy leader! All the services have problems but never ran into ring knockers until I retired and went to work for the Federal Govt as a civilian.
(0)
(0)
SSG James Rivers
I am retired but also a mason, Sgt Grudzinski answer is totally valid, to the light my brother
(2)
(0)
16
16
0
<span style="color: rgb(77, 77, 77); font-size: 12px;">I have talked to several Senior NCOs and one General Officer who sat on Centralized promotion boards. They say the process is extremely fair. The standards are set prior to voting, DA PAM 600-25 outlines expected duties so there is no changing the standard if a mason ring is spotted in the photo. I know this doesn't address the broader issue of cliques, but performance will win over a clique any day. Remember, a manager never benches or trades a .400 hitter</span>
(16)
(0)
SFC (Join to see)
Roger that 1SG Brock. I had heard about the Centralized promotion boards and what supposedly used to take place. It was quite humorous at times and initially left a bad taste in my mouth. I believe that the board personnel are selected for professionalism and uphold the standards. I was more or less referring to SGT-SSG boards. But, thank you very much for your insight 1SG Brock.
(2)
(0)
CSM (Join to see)
SGT Spangler,
No worries. Honestly, I have seen it, but would I have seen more of is that squared away Soldiers and NCOs do get taken care of. I sat on numerous boards and never saw that bias. The only bias we showed was towards the positive reputation of the Soldier.
(3)
(0)
SFC Don Ward
Had an Engineer CSM that had just returned from sitting a selection board explain the working of the board. He told us the best comparison was this - Place a chair up against the wall. Stand back 25 feet with the stack of records. Throw said records at the chair, those that land on the chair and stay, are promoted. Those that hit the chair and fall off still have next year.
(0)
(0)
Read This Next
Continue with Facebook 
Continue with Google