Posted on Mar 8, 2015
What should I put on my event-oriented counseling for this NCO?
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Thank you for your time, comments, and suggestions everyone.
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 15
Depriving a Soldier of training by not taking the time to coach and mentor firers.
Leading by bad example, that teaches others that this is a method
Lied to me about firing into Soldier's lane, what else and when will he compromise? Compromising integrity in training opens the door to accidents, inconsistent standards, favoritism. This NCO bares watching
Nothing good out of what happened on the range. What is the corrective action associated with the counseling? He coaches firers at the range that are struggling? Counseling him on shortcomings is only part of the counseling process, what is the outcome you want and when do you want to reach a measurable conclusion to the concerns you identified?
Leading by bad example, that teaches others that this is a method
Lied to me about firing into Soldier's lane, what else and when will he compromise? Compromising integrity in training opens the door to accidents, inconsistent standards, favoritism. This NCO bares watching
Nothing good out of what happened on the range. What is the corrective action associated with the counseling? He coaches firers at the range that are struggling? Counseling him on shortcomings is only part of the counseling process, what is the outcome you want and when do you want to reach a measurable conclusion to the concerns you identified?
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CPT Benjamin Wenner
Sir, thank you for your response.
My plan of action is imperative...for him and for our unit. I will ensure that all violations that were mentioned have a specific solution with a timeline/suspense.
My plan of action is imperative...for him and for our unit. I will ensure that all violations that were mentioned have a specific solution with a timeline/suspense.
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CPT Benjamin Wenner
Sir - There is a difference between making an honest mistake and blatantly lying/doing the wrong thing. This NCO is a staff sergeant he knows the difference between right and wrong.
I will tell you what I would of done if I was your platoon sergeant. I would of suspended him pending relief right on the spot, in front of everyone. I would of talked with the 1SG and CSM about the issue and asked for that NCO to be moved to a different platoon/company, the NCO would arrive with a not so good change of rater NCOER. Depending on the NCO's previous duty performance would determine whether I recommended non-judicial punishment. Written counseling would be complete with all the magic bullets.
All of the above would make my expectations crystal clear to the rest of the NCOs in the platoon.
This is a big problem with a lot of mid level NCOs. Taking short cuts, lying, and not living by the Army Values is unacceptable and should not be tolerated. Sir, just a bit of advice from a crusty old NCO, if a NCO lies right to your face you can bet your ass you can't trust them to be there when the shit hits the fan.
Sir - There is a difference between making an honest mistake and blatantly lying/doing the wrong thing. This NCO is a staff sergeant he knows the difference between right and wrong.
I will tell you what I would of done if I was your platoon sergeant. I would of suspended him pending relief right on the spot, in front of everyone. I would of talked with the 1SG and CSM about the issue and asked for that NCO to be moved to a different platoon/company, the NCO would arrive with a not so good change of rater NCOER. Depending on the NCO's previous duty performance would determine whether I recommended non-judicial punishment. Written counseling would be complete with all the magic bullets.
All of the above would make my expectations crystal clear to the rest of the NCOs in the platoon.
This is a big problem with a lot of mid level NCOs. Taking short cuts, lying, and not living by the Army Values is unacceptable and should not be tolerated. Sir, just a bit of advice from a crusty old NCO, if a NCO lies right to your face you can bet your ass you can't trust them to be there when the shit hits the fan.
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1LT Wenner, you posted a situation that truly will cause many to "pause". I was Safety NCOIC for many weapons ranges, CQB and also for many years at Army Training Centers. This situation is problematic. On one hand you are faced with the "letter of the law", on the other "duty/training" and also "trust".
While it is the obligation of all Officers to plan and organize the training, it is the Duty and Obligation of NCO's to actually "conduct" that training. For this NCO to not only cut corners, potentially jeopardize the safety of the soldiers on the range, but to basically LIE about his actions really causes a little angst for me.
It may be apparent that the NCO has "lost his focus" because of a personal issue or desire to depart early. No Excuse. Do it right or don't do it at all!!!
You are well within your rights, and duty to counsel this young NCO about his responsibilities and this particular incident.
I want to also point out something you may want to consider. Trust is a very BIG thing for an Officer / NCO relationship. If that trust is broken, it becomes increasingly difficult to function properly as a cohesive team. Having this written into an "event-oriented" counseling statement is absolutely the proper way to handle this. It will demonstrate that you are wanting training that is superior, mentorship that is proper, and honestly/integrity always. Maybe mention that this document will stay with you and not his file to show that you want to keep the trust (even though he violated yours).
Having this "event-oriented" counseling for your personal records may be the best choice versus having this in a "File" in the office. If this person is a "loose cannon" and continually demonstrates that he is willing to sacrifice safety over self service - then by all means do what you need to with the documentation.
I have seen lives lost during my deployments because people "cut corners" or departed from "doctrine" based on their "desire" to finish early. I don't agree with this mentality and never have, ask any of my junior and senior NCO's who worked for me in the past. I didn't cut corners, neither should they. Don't get me wrong - I chastised but did so with compassion and understanding. I wasn't a robot but also wasn't a "pushover".
Tough situation, but I suggest to go ahead with your course of action.
While it is the obligation of all Officers to plan and organize the training, it is the Duty and Obligation of NCO's to actually "conduct" that training. For this NCO to not only cut corners, potentially jeopardize the safety of the soldiers on the range, but to basically LIE about his actions really causes a little angst for me.
It may be apparent that the NCO has "lost his focus" because of a personal issue or desire to depart early. No Excuse. Do it right or don't do it at all!!!
You are well within your rights, and duty to counsel this young NCO about his responsibilities and this particular incident.
I want to also point out something you may want to consider. Trust is a very BIG thing for an Officer / NCO relationship. If that trust is broken, it becomes increasingly difficult to function properly as a cohesive team. Having this written into an "event-oriented" counseling statement is absolutely the proper way to handle this. It will demonstrate that you are wanting training that is superior, mentorship that is proper, and honestly/integrity always. Maybe mention that this document will stay with you and not his file to show that you want to keep the trust (even though he violated yours).
Having this "event-oriented" counseling for your personal records may be the best choice versus having this in a "File" in the office. If this person is a "loose cannon" and continually demonstrates that he is willing to sacrifice safety over self service - then by all means do what you need to with the documentation.
I have seen lives lost during my deployments because people "cut corners" or departed from "doctrine" based on their "desire" to finish early. I don't agree with this mentality and never have, ask any of my junior and senior NCO's who worked for me in the past. I didn't cut corners, neither should they. Don't get me wrong - I chastised but did so with compassion and understanding. I wasn't a robot but also wasn't a "pushover".
Tough situation, but I suggest to go ahead with your course of action.
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CPT Benjamin Wenner
Well said. Thank you for your response!
Trust is absolutely my concern since we will continue working together, so I will tailor that into my counseling and let him know that I want our relationship to work out by indicating that it will stay with me until he forces me to push it or take the "magic bullet"'s course of action.
Trust is absolutely my concern since we will continue working together, so I will tailor that into my counseling and let him know that I want our relationship to work out by indicating that it will stay with me until he forces me to push it or take the "magic bullet"'s course of action.
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