Posted on Feb 27, 2015
Are personnel with Article 15s better than personnel who cannot pass body composition or APFT?
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I have been flagged for the Army Body Composition Program (I can pass my PT test with over 70% in each event, however I am on a P2 profile; but I am also recognized as knowledgeable in my job). Looking at AR 600-8-19, it says of soldiers flagged for UCMJ that once the soldier completes sentence and flag has been closed favorably, s/he regains promotion eligibility without re-boarding; however there's no mention of re-boarding or regaining eligibility for APFT or ABCP flag removals.
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 10
You will lose your promotable status unless you have a valid APFT on your promotion point worksheet. You will also lose your promotable status if you do not meet the ABCP standard. A flag can stay in place for up to six months if you do not correct the deficiency, I usually recommend to my commanders to initiate a bar along with the flag. If the Soldier cannot overcome the bar the flag is lifted and a new flag for separation is initiated.
There can be no favorable action on a Soldier that is flagged. If a promotable specialist can not meet the Army standards I would not let him/her remain promotable until they could prove to me that they can meet the standards. There are a enough NCOs in the Army already that don't meet the standards, why would I want to have another one?
I am not being an asshole I am just telling you the way it is, I hope that you can overcome the flag and get back on track.
Good luck!
There can be no favorable action on a Soldier that is flagged. If a promotable specialist can not meet the Army standards I would not let him/her remain promotable until they could prove to me that they can meet the standards. There are a enough NCOs in the Army already that don't meet the standards, why would I want to have another one?
I am not being an asshole I am just telling you the way it is, I hope that you can overcome the flag and get back on track.
Good luck!
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SGT Joseph Jones
It's not being an asshole at all its upholding standard set in place. But if I understand him correctly he passes APFT with no issue. He just has a Medical issue so is the issue that he's passing PT test while on profile so he's broke D and getting by with brisk walk?
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SGT Joseph Jones
LTC Rob Griggs you are right i was passed over 3 times and watched someone in the same company but different platoon get promoted 12-18 months before me just because he and top went to some training together or knew each other from the past. I knew on the Rifle range it took him all day to qual. He did minimum on PT. He was a shammer and I see him promoted all the time filling slots I could have fast tracked in. When we deployed he made E-6 because the slot was there. He couldn't shoot a barn from the inside. He couldn't drive. I was an E-4 teaching the whole company to properly use the .50 I never could understand people with P2 medical profiles being promoted and or holding slots. I came over from 13B so I trained on almost every weapon crew served we had. I even used the .60 before the saw came along. These guys were in their 40s and some older holding up slots.
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SPC Jeffrey Reese
One problem with the Tape and the standards they aren't equitable. While I was active the Tape was done at the unit level which should not be done. It should actually be done by a non interested third party their is a reason I say this. I observed a tape being done where a person was close on the tape and was failed due to the Fact the NCO doing the tape disliked the soldier. Also the person doing the taping doesn't usually know the proper points to tape. I had a P3 and the unit didn't know the appropriate way to do my alternate PT test I had to find the place to do it and find my own testers. So while you say that you have these standards you need to look at what is being done before you hurt some ones career for the wrong reason.
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SSG Roger Ayscue
Then how about Big Army and its't willingness (depending upon the civilian administration at the time) that accepts as fully mission capable, an individual that has a mental disorder and can't figure out which bathroom he should use, and why his DNA caused him to have an extra penis and no breasts. Then requires the Army to provide him with medication every day for the rest of his life to ensure that he can wear a dress and sit around the ladies club thanking everyone for a lovely tea party.
No one can tell me that a Soldier having a mental disorder called gender dysphoria, and requiring expensive and evasive elective surgery and daily medications is a better Soldier than a guy that may be genetically disposed to being heavier than the marathon runner to his left or right. If weight can be a discriminating factor for determination of fitness to serve simply because it is the only thing ever enforced that "Appearance in uniform" is a factor, then a guy in a dress with a mental disorder falls into that same category because it is a ridiculous sight in uniform. Just saying, body composition is not always a choice, whereas elective medical procedures are. And if you are going to say that the elective medical procedures are needed because they need to "Feel Right" well Feelings are not really a Force Multiplier"
This is the last thing that a person can be discriminated against by the military... body composition. I am not saying this is wrong, I am saying that if you are going to be Politically Correct, then be Politically Correct, if you are going to go for Combat Effective then go for Combat Effective....You can not have it both ways
No one can tell me that a Soldier having a mental disorder called gender dysphoria, and requiring expensive and evasive elective surgery and daily medications is a better Soldier than a guy that may be genetically disposed to being heavier than the marathon runner to his left or right. If weight can be a discriminating factor for determination of fitness to serve simply because it is the only thing ever enforced that "Appearance in uniform" is a factor, then a guy in a dress with a mental disorder falls into that same category because it is a ridiculous sight in uniform. Just saying, body composition is not always a choice, whereas elective medical procedures are. And if you are going to say that the elective medical procedures are needed because they need to "Feel Right" well Feelings are not really a Force Multiplier"
This is the last thing that a person can be discriminated against by the military... body composition. I am not saying this is wrong, I am saying that if you are going to be Politically Correct, then be Politically Correct, if you are going to go for Combat Effective then go for Combat Effective....You can not have it both ways
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APFT will not cause you to permanently lose your promotable status. Being placed on ABCP will cause you to have to go to the board again. I am pretty sure that this information is correct...
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I don't think you can look at just those things and decide whether one soldier is better than another. You have to look at the "total package". I've been in for over 9 years and seen PT studs that were crap workers/poor team members and I've seen people who are flagged for failing HT/WT or APFT that were some of the best soldiers I've had the privilege to serve with. It's not black and white as just those issues.
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