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I have a soldier that injured his knee and the PT recommended him to Ortho for exploratory surgery to find the source if the pain. The commander denied it based on the amount of con leave. The soldier was then informed that he was being chaptered for failure to adapt even though he is beyond 180 days. The SM just found out the chapter is for the knee and ironically what would have been the date for the con leave for the surgery has long passed. The SM is also being denied a meeting through open door and not allowed the time to go to JAG or IG. He has also not failed a PT test. Thoughts on the SM course of action?
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Medical Board
Medical Board
Posted 5 y ago
Responses: 3
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This sounds like one of those situations where there's a whole lot of vague implications in the air. For instance, did the SM specifically tell his leadership that he was going to use the open door policy and was refused, or did he ask and their team leader discourage it? Who specifically is denying the SM?
As for the chapter, it sounds like they are going to request a 5-17, which is for medical reasons that are untreatable or don't warrant a med board. An exploratory surgery could be considered optional and so the commander can deny the convalescent leave.
All around this sounds like a failure of lower level leadership. A Soldier absolutely cannot be denied the chance to see IG. In fact, all they have to do is make a call. Or they could just say, "Today at xxxx time I am going to JAG". Then they go.
Also, keep in mind that the BDE CDR is the approval authority for a Chapter 5-17 and since it's medical related, the unit medical provider would be expected to have reviewed the case before JAG blesses it off to the BN CDR for endorsement and the BDE CDR for approval. Those are all good spots to stop the 5-17 from going through. Sometimes, it seems to company Commanders and 1SGs may seem to have an unlimited amount of power. But the tools that they wield are programs with checks and balances at higher levels, managed by senior NCOs. On top of that, no BDE CDR wants to chapter a brand new Soldier. You have to make a pretty outstanding case to get a BDE CDR to approve a chapter for a brand new Soldier who has no misconduct.
My suggested COA is to utilize the Open door policy of the CSM first. The CSM has a lot of power to squash stupid things quickly.
If that fails, an email or call to IG is second.
As for the chapter, it sounds like they are going to request a 5-17, which is for medical reasons that are untreatable or don't warrant a med board. An exploratory surgery could be considered optional and so the commander can deny the convalescent leave.
All around this sounds like a failure of lower level leadership. A Soldier absolutely cannot be denied the chance to see IG. In fact, all they have to do is make a call. Or they could just say, "Today at xxxx time I am going to JAG". Then they go.
Also, keep in mind that the BDE CDR is the approval authority for a Chapter 5-17 and since it's medical related, the unit medical provider would be expected to have reviewed the case before JAG blesses it off to the BN CDR for endorsement and the BDE CDR for approval. Those are all good spots to stop the 5-17 from going through. Sometimes, it seems to company Commanders and 1SGs may seem to have an unlimited amount of power. But the tools that they wield are programs with checks and balances at higher levels, managed by senior NCOs. On top of that, no BDE CDR wants to chapter a brand new Soldier. You have to make a pretty outstanding case to get a BDE CDR to approve a chapter for a brand new Soldier who has no misconduct.
My suggested COA is to utilize the Open door policy of the CSM first. The CSM has a lot of power to squash stupid things quickly.
If that fails, an email or call to IG is second.
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SPC Yolanda Walker
Thanks! I definitely agree his lower leadership is failing him.
I recommended he go above as well because it seems fishy to me. I told him with his unit deployed and him not doing anything but sep classes and details there is 0 reason why he can't use open door or go to jag/ig. From my understanding it has been the acting 1SG that has been denying everything.
You pretty much cleared it up where he needs to go from here so thank you.
I recommended he go above as well because it seems fishy to me. I told him with his unit deployed and him not doing anything but sep classes and details there is 0 reason why he can't use open door or go to jag/ig. From my understanding it has been the acting 1SG that has been denying everything.
You pretty much cleared it up where he needs to go from here so thank you.
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SFC (Join to see)
SPC Yolanda Walker that makes a lot more sense. 1SGs and CDRs have to attend a pre-command course where they learn the things they can and cannot do, according to law. Acting 1SGs don't get that course and can find themselves in deep trouble when they make decisions without consulting JAG.
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I feel like a lot is missing from the story. No one can arbitrarily deny the open door policy or IG or legal. Denying con leave doesn't equate to denying the surgery. Also denying medical treatment seems a bit far stretched in terms of the commanders ability, but I don't know for sure on that one SFC (Join to see) is the regulation master.
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SPC Yolanda Walker
Yeah there are a lot of holes and I'm not there to see the full picture. From what I gather the acting COM denied the surgery justifying it because the con leave was 30 days and recommended he go to the med board.
The SM was able to call IG and they asked for all his documentation and a summary memo. The acting com then asked him to give her the memo so she can "look over it" and send it up.
I advised him to create a paper trail by using his mil email and requesting the time that way and a response by email as well.
I've been out a little while have never heard of someone being med boarded while passing PT.
The SM was able to call IG and they asked for all his documentation and a summary memo. The acting com then asked him to give her the memo so she can "look over it" and send it up.
I advised him to create a paper trail by using his mil email and requesting the time that way and a response by email as well.
I've been out a little while have never heard of someone being med boarded while passing PT.
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SPC Yolanda Walker
Or denied surgery because of con leave.
I would think that if you want to med chapter someone you would allow the surgery because it would be in your favor.
I would think that if you want to med chapter someone you would allow the surgery because it would be in your favor.
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A lot of something doesn't add up here. Open Door is Army wide ans can't be denied, even if you have to go higher.Technically I find it hard to believe that a 1SG even acting as the Acting Cmdr can sign off on a Chapter. Also the CDR/1SG can really y deny the recommendations of the Med people, particularly if it is PA or higher.
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SPC Yolanda Walker
There is an acting 1SG and an acting Com lol. The chapter is not coming from the med side but from the unit.
The unit said it was for failure to adapt but the paperwork said it was for his knee.
We all know there are toxic shitbag leaders that bully young lower enlisted soldiers so it isn't suprising at all for the acting 1SG to be acting foul.
The unit said it was for failure to adapt but the paperwork said it was for his knee.
We all know there are toxic shitbag leaders that bully young lower enlisted soldiers so it isn't suprising at all for the acting 1SG to be acting foul.
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