Posted on Sep 4, 2019
Should infantry training be used for basic training?
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I recently went through basic training and to be honest it wasn't that hard. It was exhausting but i feel like we could have pushed harder, we could aimed for higher. There were few people who already quit on pick up day and our battery was famous for smoking and training but i think we still could have done better. I feel before anything we are infantry so why not give the same 14 weeks training?
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Posted 5 y ago
Responses: 9
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To answer your primary question, it would be prohibitively expensive for the Army. If all the basic training's are lengthened by 2 months, there would be less basic training Cycles per year. That means the army would have to recruit less people per year, or build more basic training facilities and allocate more drill sergeants away from combat units.
The Marines are capable of training everyone as Infantry because they are significantly smaller. The Army recruits almost half the size of the Marine Corps every year.
As for the second part of your post, if you thought it was easy, continue pushing on. I thought basic was easy and I went to airborne school. I thought airborne school was hard so I went to RIP and Ranger School. They were hard, but I passed. Every time I passed something I found something harder to do. The Army is a very scalable place in terms of effort level. You can always find someplace where it's easier and someplace where it's harder. There are units where a 180 APFT is perfectly acceptable, and there are units where a 350 is the normal squad average. It's up to you to accept the challenge. Are you the kind of person who runs at the front of the slow group so you feel strong, or the kind of person who runs at the back of the fastest group so you can get stronger?
You're not infantry first, don't ever kid yourself. I started out in the 75th, and earned my ranger tab, and served many infantry roles in training and deployment. I was eligible to switch my MOS to 11B by having my tab. At no point would I say that I am basically infantry, or infantry first. What you think is infantry, is just basic soldier skills. Infantry isn't a skill set, if it was, those chubby airsoft guys would be infantry. It's an entire culture and society.
If you like working with the infantry, and would like to do infantry things while keeping your MOS, I suggest you volunteer for RASP. It's a good challenge and you'll get to do fun things. If you decide the infantry life is for you, you can switch your MOS after you get your tab.
The Marines are capable of training everyone as Infantry because they are significantly smaller. The Army recruits almost half the size of the Marine Corps every year.
As for the second part of your post, if you thought it was easy, continue pushing on. I thought basic was easy and I went to airborne school. I thought airborne school was hard so I went to RIP and Ranger School. They were hard, but I passed. Every time I passed something I found something harder to do. The Army is a very scalable place in terms of effort level. You can always find someplace where it's easier and someplace where it's harder. There are units where a 180 APFT is perfectly acceptable, and there are units where a 350 is the normal squad average. It's up to you to accept the challenge. Are you the kind of person who runs at the front of the slow group so you feel strong, or the kind of person who runs at the back of the fastest group so you can get stronger?
You're not infantry first, don't ever kid yourself. I started out in the 75th, and earned my ranger tab, and served many infantry roles in training and deployment. I was eligible to switch my MOS to 11B by having my tab. At no point would I say that I am basically infantry, or infantry first. What you think is infantry, is just basic soldier skills. Infantry isn't a skill set, if it was, those chubby airsoft guys would be infantry. It's an entire culture and society.
If you like working with the infantry, and would like to do infantry things while keeping your MOS, I suggest you volunteer for RASP. It's a good challenge and you'll get to do fun things. If you decide the infantry life is for you, you can switch your MOS after you get your tab.
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LCDR Joshua Gillespie
I'm neither Army, nor Infantry SFC (Join to see) , but yours might be the best dang response I've read on this threat yet...thank you. You are, of course, absolutely correct in all respects. If it isn't too presumptuous for me to say so however, speaking as a Sailor, and one who was briefly exposed to the Army way of doing things...I sincerely believe despite the cost and impact it would have; "hardening up" other pipelines, to include those of sister services, would be a move in the right direction. I was fortunate enough to go through MTT training at Ft. Riley in the winter of 2007, hosted by the 1st Infantry Division. While I am very aware that those two months in no way compare to even a fraction of the training received by the Infantry, it was, as expected, an "eye opening" experience. I learned things there (and subsequently, while operational with an ETT) that would've been invaluable during my first and second tours with the Fleet, and to which I had virtually zero exposure to prior. During that time, our "Force Protection" and (to a lesser degree) VBSS teams were largely training ad hoc; and, without disrespecting our process, or those executing it...largely making it up as we went along-with noticeable shortcomings. I agree 100% with the adage, "choose your rate...choose your fate"; if someone wants to do what the Infantry does, join the Infantry. Neither should we "water down" what it means to be part of that culture, or waste time and resources trying to narrow the gap with other MOSs/services. Still, and speaking only from my experiences...I respectfully think the Armed Forces as a whole, could do with an injection of the core competencies that your team is looking for when creating warfighters.
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I can agree with you with a couple of additional thoughts on it.
I notice discipline is greater lacking the last 3-4 years with new soldiers coming in.
- That could be from Basic not being long enough, lack of discipline instilled in basic, etc.
However, our DS's have their hands tied with being "correct, nice, etc" i have told people stories from my basic who went through even 1-2 years later and they were shocked that we did "naked shower drills" got smoked for hours, called names etc. Cause even their (as they described) were "tough" but wasn't per say mean and scary tough.
It also depends on who the DS's are and their background. My platoons two DS's were both infantry, and even told us "we don't care about drill and ceremony, we are going to teach you how to clear a room and proper troop movement."
- I love that we had that extra time learning as you say the primary role of the Soldiers.
I believe to "fix" the lack of soldiering skills and discipline (which is my biggest issue) we need need to first and foremost give our DS's their power back, and maybe also extend basic 1-2 weeks.
Disclaimer: Soldier tasks and skills are at the individual and unit level when new soldiers get to their units. They "should" be practicing and refreshing on those things, however I have seen that that isn't the case usually.
I notice discipline is greater lacking the last 3-4 years with new soldiers coming in.
- That could be from Basic not being long enough, lack of discipline instilled in basic, etc.
However, our DS's have their hands tied with being "correct, nice, etc" i have told people stories from my basic who went through even 1-2 years later and they were shocked that we did "naked shower drills" got smoked for hours, called names etc. Cause even their (as they described) were "tough" but wasn't per say mean and scary tough.
It also depends on who the DS's are and their background. My platoons two DS's were both infantry, and even told us "we don't care about drill and ceremony, we are going to teach you how to clear a room and proper troop movement."
- I love that we had that extra time learning as you say the primary role of the Soldiers.
I believe to "fix" the lack of soldiering skills and discipline (which is my biggest issue) we need need to first and foremost give our DS's their power back, and maybe also extend basic 1-2 weeks.
Disclaimer: Soldier tasks and skills are at the individual and unit level when new soldiers get to their units. They "should" be practicing and refreshing on those things, however I have seen that that isn't the case usually.
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PV2 (Join to see)
SGT Dave Tracy i am a 92A sgt, also known as supply guy but first i am a soldier and i think that the training should be same for everyone. I am a lethal killing machine first and then comes my supply job. Is infantry for everyone? No, its not but then to be part of something bigger than you better than you, you must be willing to go through things you are not at all comfortable with.
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SGT Dave Tracy
PV2 (Join to see) - Easy killer.
As with any job, there are certain task-specific duties that are carried out by the Infantry, that other MOSs need not waste time/energy/money doing a deep-dive into combat training; therefore a basic level of combat training for everyone is a solid foundation for soldiering skills which may--though not often--be called upon. That said, combat training could be enhanced for all MOSs, I agree, but at initial entry its not needed for everyone to do all that Infantry OSUT does.
As with any job, there are certain task-specific duties that are carried out by the Infantry, that other MOSs need not waste time/energy/money doing a deep-dive into combat training; therefore a basic level of combat training for everyone is a solid foundation for soldiering skills which may--though not often--be called upon. That said, combat training could be enhanced for all MOSs, I agree, but at initial entry its not needed for everyone to do all that Infantry OSUT does.
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PV2 (Join to see)
SFC Michael D. I, on my own want to become a drill sergeant one day to train new trainee or guide soldiers but something in me tells me that in coming days trainees will get more and more privileges and one day tired of everyone Army has to go back to good old days. I have always looked upto drill sergeants for a role model in army and only a drill sergeant knows what he or she goes through to get that campaign hat and how proud a drill sergeant feels when their platoon graduates from basic.
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I'd be for it for several reasons, but agree with WO1 (Join to see) -the first step would be rolling back years of "tying" DS's "hands behind their backs" in the interest of being more "enlightened". Personally, I think it would help the morale, effectiveness, and overall efficiency of al the services if we started with a uniform basic training syllabus. Does a Sailor headed for Deck Division need to be able to accurately operate an M4 while using night vision? It couldn't hurt. Does a future Air Force pilot need to be able to do the "slide for life"? Might make a big difference if said officer ever found themselves down behind enemy lines. It would likely help us build bonds of cross-cooperation if from E-1 to flag rank, everyone had spent at least some time doing the same things...and would logically instill a greater sense of the warrior ethic into each of us. The challenges are of course real; it would take more time, more money, and since not everyone is cut out for everything...would probably impact manning requirements. Ultimately, I think we're actually going to see moves in this direction-the Military can be slow to react to things, but it seems to be universally recognized that we need to build a more cohesive set of skills if we're to maintain our presence.
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WO1 (Join to see)
That is an interesting concept/idea! I wouldn't have thought of that at all. I could see the benefits for sure, but then the logistical standpoint is a nightmare.
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PV2 (Join to see)
I wanted that. DS should be given their Authority back. My drill sergeants was from infantry and they at times we could tell that they were holdkmg back because of rules. I wanted them to go 100% but when I looked around that my battles were giving up for no reason that made me upset. US army is the best of the best and it should go back to good old days where DS could put hands on trainees.
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LCDR Joshua Gillespie
WO1 (Join to see) -I think the resources and manning issues alone would limit any such changes greatly. I also think we need to be clear on the fact that there's a difference between increasing the discipline and skill sets of the whole...and trying to make "everyone Infantry"...which is neither correct, nor possible.
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