Posted on Feb 18, 2015
How do you view/deal with service members that have an NJP under their belt?
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So I have an NJP under my belt for details I won't go into, so does my father, as do many other service members. My question more specifically is how does this information change how you view them, treat them, or deal with them on a professional and personal level? Are you any more harsh on them in some effort to punish them more or teach them a lesson? Alternatively, does this not even have an effect on anything, are they just another service member to you with a bad past?
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 37
Just one more data point to form the total picture. The more personal experience I have with a Marine the less his paper record before we met bears on my evaluation.
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Sgt Joshua Anderson
The politically correct, and in this case, absolutely correct answer is to say that the NJP/Art 15 is in the past and should have no impact on the present and future, if the individual has cleaned up his/her act that warranted the disciplinary action.
However, in the real world, if that service member is still in the same unit/under the same leadership where the NJP/Art 15 was administered, it is human nature to "not forget". It is kind-of like "what has been seen cannot be unseen". Although the passing of time may help erase some of the "past", it will be there as long as the people remain the same. Going to a new unit and being under new leadership is the only real way to erase the issue.
The other factor one must consider is that the military has gone back into the "zero defect" mentality. With all the drawdowns/downsizing going on, Boards are looking for any reason to differentiate service members to select for dismissal. A lone NJP/Art 15 from years back may be the only differentiation they can find to separate those selected to stay and those selected to be downsized. Someone with an NJP/Art 15 in his/her records has a "grenade in his/her rucksack" that will probably go off some day. Those individuals should give serious thought to getting out before they have too much invested.
I read one comment that stated an old adage that almost all E-9s had an Art 15 in their records, or something like that. While certainly don't dispute that might have been the case, I don't think it is anymore. As a battalion commander, I had an outstanding E-7 with 17 years of service who was selected for QMP (discharge) and the only black mark in his otherwise outstanding record was an Art 15 he had received years earlier as an E-4. We were able to manipulate the system to allow him to stay in and he later was selected for E-8. That is not an unusual situation. There are plenty of soldiers, NCOs and officers in the military with no black marks in their records. One NJP/Art 15 will probably derail someone down the road, whether it be a promotion board or a QMP. Sad, as there are outstanding people who have made a mistake and learned from it, but, as I said, the "zero defect" mentality has kicked in again.
The politically correct, and in this case, absolutely correct answer is to say that the NJP/Art 15 is in the past and should have no impact on the present and future, if the individual has cleaned up his/her act that warranted the disciplinary action.
However, in the real world, if that service member is still in the same unit/under the same leadership where the NJP/Art 15 was administered, it is human nature to "not forget". It is kind-of like "what has been seen cannot be unseen". Although the passing of time may help erase some of the "past", it will be there as long as the people remain the same. Going to a new unit and being under new leadership is the only real way to erase the issue.
The other factor one must consider is that the military has gone back into the "zero defect" mentality. With all the drawdowns/downsizing going on, Boards are looking for any reason to differentiate service members to select for dismissal. A lone NJP/Art 15 from years back may be the only differentiation they can find to separate those selected to stay and those selected to be downsized. Someone with an NJP/Art 15 in his/her records has a "grenade in his/her rucksack" that will probably go off some day. Those individuals should give serious thought to getting out before they have too much invested.
I read one comment that stated an old adage that almost all E-9s had an Art 15 in their records, or something like that. While certainly don't dispute that might have been the case, I don't think it is anymore. As a battalion commander, I had an outstanding E-7 with 17 years of service who was selected for QMP (discharge) and the only black mark in his otherwise outstanding record was an Art 15 he had received years earlier as an E-4. We were able to manipulate the system to allow him to stay in and he later was selected for E-8. That is not an unusual situation. There are plenty of soldiers, NCOs and officers in the military with no black marks in their records. One NJP/Art 15 will probably derail someone down the road, whether it be a promotion board or a QMP. Sad, as there are outstanding people who have made a mistake and learned from it, but, as I said, the "zero defect" mentality has kicked in again.
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SGT John Ball
As I always say, Article 15's are not a predictor of the future. Anyone with an Article 15 years earlier and is a SNCO with an outstanding record should never be bothered by a QMP board. Even when I was at sanctuary, I did have to face a QMP board because of two Field Grades I got as a young, dumb, knucklehead Private. My Commander, BC, and First Sergeant got me out of that one by writing up glowing rebuttals, which caused the board to simply drop it and move on to the next Soldier. Yes, this zero defect mentality in the Army is a cancer that needs to be cut out, because it now targets an otherwise outstanding Soldier who made a mistake years earlier.
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NJP is just that. Non-judicial. If a service member turns themselves around, they don't have anything to worry about. Some of the most dedicated Soldiers I have are guys who we gave a "second chance" to by doing NJP. That being said, you don't get a third chance in this unit. You can screw up once and chalk it up to a learning experience. Do something again and you're a liability and you're wasting leaders' time. We give them the rope. They can either crawl out of the hole with it or they can tie the noose for us to make it easier when we have to haul them up.
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