Posted on Feb 5, 2015
Limiting awards by rank is WRONG. Comments?
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I was just reminded of one of the most ignorant policies I have ever seen in the Army. It's the policy of limiting awards based on rank. This is complete BS. You mean to tell me that a private is incapable of acts of heroism, valor, etc...??? Nonsense. Rank should have NOTHING to do with the decision but rather on the pure merit of his/her actions PERIOD. Is there something I'm missing?
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Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 45
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Case in point:
My first deployment in '06 ended with my entire PSD element getting ARCOM's while the officers from the TOC staff received Bronze Stars. (This may sound like a joke, but I'm not kidding)
My team spent the majority of our time outside the wire performing duties critical to the 'hearts and minds' of the locals, while these officers were watching us from their arm chairs.
Awards given based on actual merit are few and far between.
My first deployment in '06 ended with my entire PSD element getting ARCOM's while the officers from the TOC staff received Bronze Stars. (This may sound like a joke, but I'm not kidding)
My team spent the majority of our time outside the wire performing duties critical to the 'hearts and minds' of the locals, while these officers were watching us from their arm chairs.
Awards given based on actual merit are few and far between.
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SGT Kristin Wiley
Have you ever looked at one of your leader's evals? Many of them take credit for the work of those under them whether or not they played a role in developing that soldier or contributing to the achievement. Those officers got bronze stars not just because of their rank, but because they were 'responsible' for your actions outside of the wire. I wish it wasn't so, but I know it is. I spend countless hours of my off duty time completing my bachelor's degree these last few year's, just to find out that an NCO with no direct supervision over me claimed this accomplishment of mine as part of their eval.
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SGT Jake Miller
My last deployment was the same way. We even had an officer show up a month before we went home. And he got a bronze star. And he wasn't even there 30 days.
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MAJ Rene De La Rosa
SGT Kristin Wiley Absolutely correct. Had a prior OIC who claimed he "directed and willed" the department into compliance and award-winning status. It was the NCOs who did the work; he took the credit.
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MAJ Rene De La Rosa
SGT Jake Miller That is a crying shame, and should never have been allowed. Someone only showing up for a month and getting a Bronze Star? No wonder there's so much animosity toward officers.
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I have read all these posts and agree what is said in most of them. The key point is that meritorious service/achievement awards recognize the individuals' contributions as well as the scope of responsibility. Equally meritorious service by a SGT (E-5), with his/her scope of responsibility, is just not the same as that of an SFC/PSG (E-7), for example.
What used to really burn me up was my subordinates trying to use me as the bad guy. For example, a company commander would recommend a soldier for an MSM, clearly knowing that it was not justified and knowing that I (brigade commander) would downgrade it. Then he could tell the soldier that he had put him in for the MSM but that the "old man" had downgraded it. I "smoked" more than one officer for that. If he/she felt it was truly justified, so be it, however, most knew it was not when it was submitted. [Now, I would not be totally honest if I said that I had never done that as a young officer... and it is wrong. You need to have the moral courage to look the soldiers in the face and tell them what you feel they truly deserve and recommend them for that.]
Meritorious service/achievement awards have some rank bias with them, based on the scope of responsibility issue. Whether people agree with it or not, it is simply a fact.
What used to really burn me up was my subordinates trying to use me as the bad guy. For example, a company commander would recommend a soldier for an MSM, clearly knowing that it was not justified and knowing that I (brigade commander) would downgrade it. Then he could tell the soldier that he had put him in for the MSM but that the "old man" had downgraded it. I "smoked" more than one officer for that. If he/she felt it was truly justified, so be it, however, most knew it was not when it was submitted. [Now, I would not be totally honest if I said that I had never done that as a young officer... and it is wrong. You need to have the moral courage to look the soldiers in the face and tell them what you feel they truly deserve and recommend them for that.]
Meritorious service/achievement awards have some rank bias with them, based on the scope of responsibility issue. Whether people agree with it or not, it is simply a fact.
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PO2 Nick Burke
Scope of responsibility.. So an E5 or E6 filling an E8 billet doesn't have the same scope of responsibility? How about those junior officers? Scope of responsibility? Time in to earn it.
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COL Jean (John) F. B.
PO2 Nick Burke - Awards should not be based on rank only. Consideration should be given to the contribution the individual made to the mission/event/etc. he/she is being recognized for, the level and scope of responsibility, the length of time the award covers, etc...
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SGT Jon Creager
Sorry Col. but you could not be more wrong. I was put in for an award. it was down graded. same line you just used as an E-5 there is no way blah blah blah. Col. if you are no there to see the facts you need to shut up sign the award and MTFO.
I saw a need for food baskets for E-4 and below who were married with children at our BGE in Germany. So I spent time my time hustling the local stores for donations, the commissary, just a hell of a lot of things. Worked hours and hours getting food baskets ready. Hours getting list from 1sgts on what troops with accompanied family needed. My BGE commander thought is was great, so did CSM, the award got up to Iron Pant Griffith and I got reamed like a cheap lady at the wall in Nuremberg.
Grffiths said I had shamed the Army and should be courts martial for doing this. Yes for helping the troops. My BGE Commander stopped Griffiths. But it was a shame.
NCO lived on post in housing when the underpaid E-4 and below was forced to live on the economy.
I saw a need for food baskets for E-4 and below who were married with children at our BGE in Germany. So I spent time my time hustling the local stores for donations, the commissary, just a hell of a lot of things. Worked hours and hours getting food baskets ready. Hours getting list from 1sgts on what troops with accompanied family needed. My BGE commander thought is was great, so did CSM, the award got up to Iron Pant Griffith and I got reamed like a cheap lady at the wall in Nuremberg.
Grffiths said I had shamed the Army and should be courts martial for doing this. Yes for helping the troops. My BGE Commander stopped Griffiths. But it was a shame.
NCO lived on post in housing when the underpaid E-4 and below was forced to live on the economy.
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COL Jean (John) F. B.
SGT Jon Creager - I said it should not be based on rank alone.
If a person is clearly justified in getting an award, he/she should get it. It s up to the chain of command to provide the information/justification to the approval authority.
If a person is clearly justified in getting an award, he/she should get it. It s up to the chain of command to provide the information/justification to the approval authority.
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In general, yes, awards based ONLY on rank is wrong.....HOWEVER, consider this: the level of award is also based on the significance and impact of your contribution. Higher rank soldiers tend to get bigger awards because their impact is usually greater due to the increase in responsibility. Not to say a junior soldier cannot impact the unit greatly. Some often do, and should be recognized for that increased impact. But that is not very common.
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PO2 Nick Burke
LTC Paul Labrador scope of responsibility.... even when he or she is performing responsibilities well above their paygrade..
Time in service.... so rewarding them for filling a billet for a long time.
Time in service.... so rewarding them for filling a billet for a long time.
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PO2 Nick Burke
LTC Paul Labrador Yet there are so many like me that filled an E8 billet as an E5 for an extended period of time who were denied or down graded while those E7 and above were given those awards for simply being there and doing their jobs.
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SFC (Join to see)
I was on a MiTT team OIF 2006-2008 in Iraq. 9 man team (6 Officers, 3 NCO's). We had our specific duties within the team, however we all went on mounted/dismounted patrols winning the hearts and minds of the locals. We all took R&R leaves, and we all busted our backends to be as successful as possible. We spent more time outside the wire than inside. At the end of our mission we were told by our Division Commander that we had to pick two individuals to get the Bronze Star, and the rest would get ARCOMS. So we were limited at the get go on awards. It didn't seem to be a fair assessment of what we had to do there. But as usual, I expected some chickenshit Colonel to do exactly that. I didn't go to Iraq to get medals, and I was given an opportunity to get out of the deployment, but I refused, knowing that some other NCO would end up going in my place. I went with two things on my mind. Do the best job I could and come home alive. I did both, so looking back I can't really complain. A Bronz Star would have been nice though.
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