Posted on Feb 3, 2015
SSG(P) Instructor
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I am reaching out to the RP community about a subject that is near and dear to my heart. My daughter is being threatened with OTH discharge from the USN.
My daughter is in the USN, she is a Seabee, and got herself into a pickle.

I do not like how the command is handling the situation...(my opinion only). There are some discrepancies that I would like investigated...I do not honestly think they will affect the outcome, but there are principles I would like addressed.

If you have any experience with writing or submitting a Congressional Inquiry, I would appreciate your input. Personal experience would take more precedence over hear-say. PM me if you have something private to share, I will keep all stories confidential...you have my word.

Specific questions I have:

I have two weeks until a scheduled Summary Court-Martial....is that enough time?

Should I send letters and requests Registered mail (requiring a signature)?

Do I write my Senators and Representatives as well as the Governor of the state she entered from as well as the current politicians in the county she is serving in?

Is there any backlash she can expect from my inquiry?

Is there any backlash I can expect as I still wear the uniform?

Is it possible I make this worse by getting involved?

Is it possible an IG Complaint (or USN equivalent) is more appropriate?

Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated?
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COL Jean (John) F. B.
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Edited 10 y ago
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First, let me say that, as a parent, I feel your pain and know that you are concerned about your daughter. We all want to do whatever we can to protect them, even after they have grown up and left home.

Having said that, I think that you should probably stay out of her situation and let her handle her own problems. She is an adult and a military member. While I am not suggesting that she may not be totally honest with you about what happened, she is telling you her side of the story. I think we have all been around long enough to realize that there are always two sides to the story and, usually, the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

I think you would be much better served offering advice and support to your daughter than trying to get Congressmen and Governors all spun up. They cannot really impact the outcome (particularly in the short time period mentioned) as all they can do is display interest and obtain the facts. Does that ensure commanders will do the right thing? Maybe... but I think that most will do what they think is right regardless of who is watching or asking. It is the commander's decision on what to do concerning the UCMJ... If the commander decides to go to court-martial rather than offer an Art 15, that is his/her call and nobody can change it (not the next higher commander, IGs, Congressmen, or anybody else). To do so would be Unlawful Command Influence, which is prohibited. I have been in that situation on a couple of occasions and had the moral courage to do what I thought right, regardless of who was trying to convince me otherwise. If anything, outsiders being involved only made me dig my heels in and continue the action with more vigor.

I honestly think that your involvement will have no impact on the situation. Sure, it will cause a little inconvenience and work for the chain of command, but that is all in the course of business. Your daughter has the right to appeal if she thinks she was mistreated and I urge her to do that, if that is what she truly believes. In that way, the whole situation will be reviewed by the next higher chain of command.

My experience with Congressionals is that they simply make the complainant feel good but rarely, if ever, have an impact on the situation/issue, particularly when it comes to military justice issues.

I used to handle Congressionals in this manner. When I received one, I would call the person in who wrote the Congressman and sit down with them to prepare the response. 99% of the time, the response WE sent to the Congressman was the same response the individual had received before he/she wrote the Congressman. The only difference was that he/she got my response immediately instead of the several weeks it took to get a response (the same response) from a Congressman. People who think commanders are influenced by questions from Congressmen are simply wrong, unless they are that very small minority who really are purposely doing something wrong.

Again, I know how you feel and I feel your pain, but I honestly think you should stay out of this, except to offer your daughter parental support and guidance. Anything else you do may make you feel good, but will have no impact on the outcome.
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SSG(P) Instructor
SSG(P) (Join to see)
10 y
COL Jean (John) F. B., LTC Scott O'Neil, MAJ David Vermillion I could fwd my 1st draft via PM if after you read it and feel the same way, would you care to include that?
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COL Jean (John) F. B.
COL Jean (John) F. B.
10 y
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I'll be happy to review it, if you want. I will give you my honest opinion, for what it's worth.
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LTC Scott O'Neil
LTC Scott O'Neil
10 y
I will be happy to review it. As COL Burleson stated, I will give you my honest opinion and you can run with that as you wish.
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SSG(P) Instructor
SSG(P) (Join to see)
9 y
Situation Solved at the lowest level. NCO taking care of business,...thanks for your help.
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SCPO Quality Assurance Supervisor
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Edited 10 y ago
First off not knowing too much on the whole situation, but regardless yes her command should have a JAG officer that will prosecute, but they are also liable to have another one to represent her, and she can hire one on her own. If they are not doing this then they are very wrong, she should have already been in contact with a lawyer of her own to help defend her, if not then something is defiantly not right.
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SSG Richard Reilly
SSG Richard Reilly
10 y
Not for a Summary Courts-martial. They really are glorified Article 15's with 30 days of confinement attached. Which immediately turns into 25 if sentenced to 30 days.
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SSG(P) Instructor
SSG(P) (Join to see)
9 y
Situation is solved. SM is retained. Perp was d/c. Happy with the decision. Thanks for all of your input.
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COL Vincent Stoneking
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I posted this as a reply to a poster below, but I think it's important enough for a top-level response... I have seen the "she is entitled to military counsel" statement several times in this thread.

This is FALSE. You are not entitled to a provided military counsel in the case of a Summary Court. Rule for Courts-Martial 1301(e), Part II, Manual for Courts-Martial United States (2012). The service in question can do so as a matter of policy (I don't know the Navy stance), it can chose to do so in a specific case, or the accused can hire private counsel.

The only way to FORCE the service to provide counsel would be to refuse the Summary Court, which she has the right to do. However, it should be borne in mind that a Summary Court is much more limited in the punishments that it can impose. It's a two-edged sword.
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TSgt Joshua Copeland
TSgt Joshua Copeland
10 y
COL Vincent Stoneking, the Navy JAG site says that they are always allowed counsel for court martial and then goes on to define the three types.

http://www.jag.navy.mil/legal_services/defense_services_addendum.htm#court-martial
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COL Vincent Stoneking
COL Vincent Stoneking
10 y
TSgt Joshua Copeland Good to know. Glad I threw in that disclaimer. :-) It goes to show that anyone can (and everyone should) learn something new every day!

Edit: It appears that the Summary Court also cannot result in a discharge, at least in and of itself!

Double Edit: Now I'm really confused.... The page says what you claimed, however, it ALSO says:

"Q. What is a Summary Court-Martial?
A. A summary court-martial is a disciplinary proceeding meant to adjudicate minor offenses with a simple procedure.
A summary court-martial is not considered a "criminal prosecution" within the meaning of the 6th Amendment.
An accused does not have a right to be represented by military defense counsel at the proceeding, but the accused will be given the opportunity to consult with an attorney beforehand."

Now I'm back to not knowing the navy's stance, as the page contradicts itself....
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