Posted on Jan 27, 2015
Are we, as uniformed service memebers, soft targets?
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With recent threats from ISIS and the like, should military installations revisit policies related to personally owned/carried weapons?
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 5
I feel safe on Fort Meade. I sometimes go to the ATM at 0-dark-thirty, and I feel very safe. I don't think a terrorist is going to get on post. I know it could happen, but the checks in place are pretty darned good. Bases are certainly much more secure than most public places. Bottom line: I feel very secure and safe on post.
I don't see us a a soft target, any more than any city or town. But I am sympathetic to the argument that military members should be allowed to carry weapons posted by Capt Richard I P.:
https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/arm-the-armed-forces
I don't see us a a soft target, any more than any city or town. But I am sympathetic to the argument that military members should be allowed to carry weapons posted by Capt Richard I P.:
https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/arm-the-armed-forces
Arm the Armed Forces! | RallyPoint
The outcome of the discussion "Concealed carry for CAC holders?" by [~222148:SGT Bernard Boyer III]. Below follows my skeleton letter to congress, based on the edits RP members have suggested to the 10 points. Anyone and everyone is welcome to edit and personalize the letter for their own use in writing to their congressional representatives. We sent a mass email on 3 January, the swearing in of the new congress, now it's a free for all. You...
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SGT Steven Eugene Kuhn MBA
I remember in the 80s when we pulled guard duty on and around the post as soldiers, we all had ammo. The Army seemed more "responsible" than it does now as far as there are not so many strange incidences as there are now BUT even they some people cannot deal with reality and had to do something stupid, which resulted no more rounds being issued.
We were shocked and it was frustrating considering we were in the Cold War and were on high alert almost always since we were on a base near the boarder. That being said; we did get ammo issued for border patrol.
As far as arming soldiers now? Logic says yes, common sense says no for obvious reasons.
We were shocked and it was frustrating considering we were in the Cold War and were on high alert almost always since we were on a base near the boarder. That being said; we did get ammo issued for border patrol.
As far as arming soldiers now? Logic says yes, common sense says no for obvious reasons.
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MSG (Join to see)
I can see the wisdom in your assessment, but I take some issue with the general rule that "one bad apple...". Should those who do something stupid be dealt with individually, so that policy does not water down practicality? Or is the preventative measure in balance with the associated headache/disadvantage? Thanks for your insight.
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SGT Steven Eugene Kuhn MBA
I also do not agree but we are speaking about the military here, the "one bad apple" is the cornerstone of Military discipline, not change in sight.
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First, the threat from ISIS is exceptionally low. You may have some "fringe lunatics" that may come with their own ideas, however ISIS has blown so much smoke and hype that they are devaluing themselves as a credible "outward" threat. Al Queda threatened the United States, Great Britain, and a few "western" nations, but they maintained focus. So far, ISIS has threatened the US, UK, Turkey, Spain, France, Iraq, Russia, Japan, etc.
It is similar to the Westboro Baptist Church with the picketing funerals. First it was the military and people were shocked and offended. Then it was military events and people were shocked and offended. Then it was public events and people started not to care. Finally it was basically ANYTHING to try to get that "shock value".
Is ISIS a credible threat? ABSOLUTELY. Do they have organized plans that are well underway? Probably not. They should be eradicated before they have a chance to solidify their boundaries. However, they are focused on establishing locally.
To get to the point of the original message, there are several factors to consider. I think that allowing CCW among Soldiers that have met the civilian requirement is fine. However, simply saying "You have a CAC, you are now capable of having that privilege at all times." No. Think of the last battalion range. I have seen field grade officers that don't know that their weapons aren't loaded. I've seen company grade officers that couldn't tell that the rounds were loaded backwards in the magazine. Enlisted that thought that they had a critical weapons malfunction and stopped a range for upwards of 10 minutes until finally the THIRD NCO to look at the weapon performed SPORTS and realized that a magazine wasn't seated properly. People that fail to follow directions and go back to attempt to handle their weapon while others are downrange. I even know of a case where a Soldier fired an AT4 BACKWARDS. These people lack the knowledge and discipline to make a split second decision necessary, and as such do not deserve the right to concealed carry without further training.
Then you have the competition of egos. For a select minority of the population, firearms enhance the potential for firearms related issues especially with alcohol involved. Someone's drinking in the barracks, gets angry and starts a fight and one or the other needs to draw a weapon to defend themselves. Now, what would have been a simple "barracks brawl" turns into a fatal shooting. I'm sorry to say that this stuff happens.
To those that are responsible and have undergone the proper training and maintaining of handling firearms in a safe, mature, and effective manner, I absolutely support arming them to prevent tragedies like Fort Hood and Fort Bliss. However, I am a firm believer of required extended training, much like is required for motorcycle operation. The harsh reality is the "consummate professional" that we all expect from a man or woman wearing the uniform of the United States military is not always the realities. Look at US Army WTF Moments, where people are wearing uniforms like thugs and flashing gang signs.
It should be a privilege, not a right. Base safety is generally a good deterrent for a majority of basic threats, but should not be the sole determining factor. Likewise, the wear of the uniform should not be the sole factor in determining an individuals decision making capacity with regards to concealed or openly carrying loaded firearms while on post, just as it isn't in the realm of the general public.
It is similar to the Westboro Baptist Church with the picketing funerals. First it was the military and people were shocked and offended. Then it was military events and people were shocked and offended. Then it was public events and people started not to care. Finally it was basically ANYTHING to try to get that "shock value".
Is ISIS a credible threat? ABSOLUTELY. Do they have organized plans that are well underway? Probably not. They should be eradicated before they have a chance to solidify their boundaries. However, they are focused on establishing locally.
To get to the point of the original message, there are several factors to consider. I think that allowing CCW among Soldiers that have met the civilian requirement is fine. However, simply saying "You have a CAC, you are now capable of having that privilege at all times." No. Think of the last battalion range. I have seen field grade officers that don't know that their weapons aren't loaded. I've seen company grade officers that couldn't tell that the rounds were loaded backwards in the magazine. Enlisted that thought that they had a critical weapons malfunction and stopped a range for upwards of 10 minutes until finally the THIRD NCO to look at the weapon performed SPORTS and realized that a magazine wasn't seated properly. People that fail to follow directions and go back to attempt to handle their weapon while others are downrange. I even know of a case where a Soldier fired an AT4 BACKWARDS. These people lack the knowledge and discipline to make a split second decision necessary, and as such do not deserve the right to concealed carry without further training.
Then you have the competition of egos. For a select minority of the population, firearms enhance the potential for firearms related issues especially with alcohol involved. Someone's drinking in the barracks, gets angry and starts a fight and one or the other needs to draw a weapon to defend themselves. Now, what would have been a simple "barracks brawl" turns into a fatal shooting. I'm sorry to say that this stuff happens.
To those that are responsible and have undergone the proper training and maintaining of handling firearms in a safe, mature, and effective manner, I absolutely support arming them to prevent tragedies like Fort Hood and Fort Bliss. However, I am a firm believer of required extended training, much like is required for motorcycle operation. The harsh reality is the "consummate professional" that we all expect from a man or woman wearing the uniform of the United States military is not always the realities. Look at US Army WTF Moments, where people are wearing uniforms like thugs and flashing gang signs.
It should be a privilege, not a right. Base safety is generally a good deterrent for a majority of basic threats, but should not be the sole determining factor. Likewise, the wear of the uniform should not be the sole factor in determining an individuals decision making capacity with regards to concealed or openly carrying loaded firearms while on post, just as it isn't in the realm of the general public.
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MSG (Join to see)
Thank you Sir, I agree that advanced training and more extensive certification would be a necessary component. Further, I strongly believe in increased severity of punishments for infractions involving weapons. There would need to be a scaled, and case-by-case evaluation of safety related infractions for those certified to posses/carry a firearm on post.
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