Posted on Aug 27, 2018
Is an order that violates Army regulations, and exceeds the authority of the issuer, "unlawful"?
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What do you do when your state military department, imposes an "unlawful" order, that violates Army regulations (at least 40-501, 600-20, and 135-91) and after bringing it to your IG, the DAIG, and the office of Congressman Ami Bera, no one is willing to take the appropriate corrective measures? (In 2013, a two star general exceeded his authority, and completely reversed the requirement for Medically Non Deployable Soldiers to perform their AT and field IDTs. Proponent for AR40-501 is The Surgeon General. CA Army National Guard still has the policy in place.)
Orders
Congress
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 11
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I think the issue with following "sketchy" orders is whether or not you feel like you're violating your ethics and morals to follow this order. It's a tricky thing sometimes. I've seen people who were adamantly opposed to something ethically and ended up getting fired anyway. So first things first, is this a hill you're willing to die on? Second, are soldiers being harmed by this? I'm not 100% sure what's going on but it sounds like he's exempting soldiers from going to the field who are medically undeployable. In Mississippi soldiers on profile don't go to AT so that's not an uncommon practice. If this is in fact what's happening, while he may be breaking a rule, I wouldn't fight it because he could easily defend that decision. But if there's more info or if I'm misreading it, it could be different.
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1st you need to reconize that the National Guard is a state ran organization, with the exceptions of being called to federal service. AT and IDT fall under state authority.
Next you would have to look at the support you get from your upward leadership, if you have no support in your actions, chances are that you either live with it, or get out. Those choices are yours.
Lastly, it's California dude.
Next you would have to look at the support you get from your upward leadership, if you have no support in your actions, chances are that you either live with it, or get out. Those choices are yours.
Lastly, it's California dude.
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SSG (Join to see)
I've already spoken to the "cut and run" bs..
As for the differentiation between state and federal, I'd call your attention to the "applicability" portions of the regulations. In this case, they apply to National Guard as well.
As for the differentiation between state and federal, I'd call your attention to the "applicability" portions of the regulations. In this case, they apply to National Guard as well.
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SSG James Bloodworth
As you stated, you have brought it to the attention of your state IG, DAIG, and a congressman... 3 very influential components of the military, if they havent done anything in five years, chances are they are not going to do anything. Maybe if you can get a JAG attorney to look at the evidence and make an argument, but it really doesnt look likely to change.
It may be more productive to find out why the General reversed the requirement instead of focusing on the "unlawful" order itself. Officers do have the authority to give direct orders. Even if it is believed to be "unlawful". Truly, if niether the state IG nor the Dept of Army IG will not touch it, there isnt much you can do except drive on.
It may be more productive to find out why the General reversed the requirement instead of focusing on the "unlawful" order itself. Officers do have the authority to give direct orders. Even if it is believed to be "unlawful". Truly, if niether the state IG nor the Dept of Army IG will not touch it, there isnt much you can do except drive on.
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SSG (Join to see)
I believe that the proper way to handle this is:
1. Through the Chain of Command
2. Channels outside command (i.e. NCO channel, IG, etc)
3. Open door policy with a Sr leader.
4. Failing that, now you have a choice. Go to the mat sure that you are doing the right thing, prepared to face the consequences of failing to obey an order. Or follow the order, documenting that it is under protest, and if possible, get the order in writing. That way if an injury ensues or a condition worsens do to overriding a profile (which a commander CAN DO, although I strongly advise against it) then your bases are covered.
I will tell you that if one of my Soldiers ran afoul of my CO that way, I will definitely have the Soldier's back unless the situation is pretty unique. Overriding a profile is seldom the right choice for the mission or the Soldier, and can have permanent consequences.
I believe that the proper way to handle this is:
1. Through the Chain of Command
2. Channels outside command (i.e. NCO channel, IG, etc)
3. Open door policy with a Sr leader.
4. Failing that, now you have a choice. Go to the mat sure that you are doing the right thing, prepared to face the consequences of failing to obey an order. Or follow the order, documenting that it is under protest, and if possible, get the order in writing. That way if an injury ensues or a condition worsens do to overriding a profile (which a commander CAN DO, although I strongly advise against it) then your bases are covered.
I will tell you that if one of my Soldiers ran afoul of my CO that way, I will definitely have the Soldier's back unless the situation is pretty unique. Overriding a profile is seldom the right choice for the mission or the Soldier, and can have permanent consequences.
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SSG (Join to see)
Funny you mention that 1SG, untold numbers of Soldiers were affected by that policy. An NCO died of a heart attack during the next AT, (doing a detail he'd otherwise be supervising) when the 40th ID was operating at 40% strength, and still trying to accomplish 100% of the mission. (That's the AT I wasn't allowed to attend, because of that policy).
after my rating chain was changed as part of an Article 138 complaint of wrong, against a previous OIC, my 1SG was changed to my Rater. So after that, when my BC tried having him "sign off" on an extremely biased, intentionally false and misleading NCOER for me, he twice refused.. So she had to change my rating chain (unofficially, so not on the UMR) so her CSM was my Rater on that NCOER. My 1SG was the only Soldier in my chain to try to do the right thing. Anyway, that turned into the first of several refused requests for Commander's Inquiry IAW AR623-3. About that time, I was being accused of AWOL and FFO (though my actions didn't meet the definition of AWOL, and they weren't going to allow me to perform duty anyway, they called me AWOL for reporting for "accountability" only. Since it was over 400 miles, I'd requested reassignment IAW AR 135-91 para 5-5.. Ignored. Interestingly, my BC did ask 40th ID JAG "can he do that?" and the response in my Article 15 paperwork, was COMPLETELY redacted. They know what they're doing is wrong, just no one is holding them accountable. Eventually I'll make it to the right desk, but how many Soldiers lives are negatively affected by it, and junior officers are corrupted by it, before it's corrected? (sorry, bit of word vomit.. it's been going for 5 years, so a lot to cover). Thanks for your input.
after my rating chain was changed as part of an Article 138 complaint of wrong, against a previous OIC, my 1SG was changed to my Rater. So after that, when my BC tried having him "sign off" on an extremely biased, intentionally false and misleading NCOER for me, he twice refused.. So she had to change my rating chain (unofficially, so not on the UMR) so her CSM was my Rater on that NCOER. My 1SG was the only Soldier in my chain to try to do the right thing. Anyway, that turned into the first of several refused requests for Commander's Inquiry IAW AR623-3. About that time, I was being accused of AWOL and FFO (though my actions didn't meet the definition of AWOL, and they weren't going to allow me to perform duty anyway, they called me AWOL for reporting for "accountability" only. Since it was over 400 miles, I'd requested reassignment IAW AR 135-91 para 5-5.. Ignored. Interestingly, my BC did ask 40th ID JAG "can he do that?" and the response in my Article 15 paperwork, was COMPLETELY redacted. They know what they're doing is wrong, just no one is holding them accountable. Eventually I'll make it to the right desk, but how many Soldiers lives are negatively affected by it, and junior officers are corrupted by it, before it's corrected? (sorry, bit of word vomit.. it's been going for 5 years, so a lot to cover). Thanks for your input.
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1SG (Join to see)
SSG (Join to see) - Message me with a direct message, so we can talk more freely than open forum. I might have an idea or two.
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