Posted on Aug 3, 2018
How do you count the grading of an APFT with alternate events for promotion reasons?
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Howdy folks, I need some guidance. I’ve looked up in AR 600-8-19, FM 7-22 and AR 350-1 about grading a PT test with those who have permenant profiles for alternate events, and I am familiar with how the average scoring works, but my question is this:
If a soldier is on a permanent no push-up, no sit-up, 2.5 mike walk profile his/her score is 180 on paper if they receive a GO for the walk. But when it comes for promotion reasons, I was told it is counted as a 300. Can anyone help me verify this? Thank you.
If a soldier is on a permanent no push-up, no sit-up, 2.5 mike walk profile his/her score is 180 on paper if they receive a GO for the walk. But when it comes for promotion reasons, I was told it is counted as a 300. Can anyone help me verify this? Thank you.
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 3
There is a way to get a 300 on permanent profile but I have to research it. In SLC someone explained it in their NCODP they presented using themselves as an example.
Actually that's only for promotion points when they average the score of events taken.
(1) Permanent profiles.
(a) Soldiers with permanent physical profiles for the push-up and/or sit-up events will be granted 60 points for each event waived while using the actual score for each event actually performed. These Soldiers must qualify on the 2-mile run or approved alternate aerobic event according to FM 7–22.
(b) Soldiers taking and passing an alternate event for the 2-mile run receive a score for that event equal to the average of the scores for the other two events.
So for promotion points, a permanent profile could get a 300. If you take the alternate for the 2 mile run and pass the score will be the average of the scores from the other event.
Otherwise it's go or no go for the alternate event and then points for whatever other events you take.
Actually that's only for promotion points when they average the score of events taken.
(1) Permanent profiles.
(a) Soldiers with permanent physical profiles for the push-up and/or sit-up events will be granted 60 points for each event waived while using the actual score for each event actually performed. These Soldiers must qualify on the 2-mile run or approved alternate aerobic event according to FM 7–22.
(b) Soldiers taking and passing an alternate event for the 2-mile run receive a score for that event equal to the average of the scores for the other two events.
So for promotion points, a permanent profile could get a 300. If you take the alternate for the 2 mile run and pass the score will be the average of the scores from the other event.
Otherwise it's go or no go for the alternate event and then points for whatever other events you take.
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SGT (Join to see)
Just to clairify SFC, since the soldier is unable to do the pushups and sit-up event, for promotion those are considered maxed out with a passing 2.5 mike walk?
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SSG (Join to see)
I'm on here because I was under the same impression for the 2.5 mile walk being the average of your 2 performed events. So I went and max out my APFT on Wednesday, doing 80 push-ups and 80 sit-ups and walked 33:27, my first day of leave. Tore my ACL/MCL and meniscus. I'm post surgery now and my knee swells during prolong walk or run. Not shaming here, I loved running. Anyway, I took my 705 to S-1 for ERB update. I looked at my PPW today and my APFT section has my total score as 283 for a promotion points of 128. That's 17 points less than what I was hoping to receive and in my MOS every points matter seeing that we were at 715 this month. I'm I wrong or is my S-1 being incompetent? Someone please say I'm right so I can call and scream at them from 2,000 miles away
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SGT(P) (Join to see)
Does your DA705 says 300 SGT? I work in ops and usually the training room clerk calculates the points or if the NCO who graded didn’t calculate the points correctly we would make them redo the form. And since ops nco has access to emilpo they can directly update your apft to your SRB. Hope that helps
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Oh god, I really hope not. I'm pretty sure that we treated it as a 180 when I was still in... Frankly, if you are on a permanent profile that doesn't allow for PUs or SUs you probably shouldn't be recommended for promotion in the first place... You should probably look at getting out...
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SGT (Join to see)
May I ask why you’d recommend that? Frankly I don’t believe in using a soldier until they are broken, and then tossing them away like they don’t mean anything. If a soldier was hurt in his or her duty, it’s our duties to help them. Not just cast them aside. And when a soldier has a life long injury that causes pain when doing the pushups and sit-ups, it wouldn’t be exactly fair to grade them on the inability to do them pain free. But I’d never cause someone to lose their job because they got hurt doing their job. we are supposed to take care and help one another.
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SGT Joseph Gunderson
SGT (Join to see) - I think that you misunderstand. I'm not saying that we should simply cast aside injured SMs. I am saying that they obviously cannot serve at the standard that should be necessary. Because of this, they are taking up a slot in a unit that could be manned by someone fully capable of performing the duties required - this includes being physically capable of the job. Just because an SM is processed out does not mean that we forget about them. I am a perfect example of this; I was medboarded because I was "unable" to perform my duties. At that point, it is the responsibility of the VA to serve that injured SM. They also shouldn't be simply drummed out without any means which is why there are transition programs in place along with VA disability for those with legitimate ailments and injuries as a result of their service. Don't get me wrong, I am one of the last people that is going to preach just pushing out "broken" Soldiers, but the military does have a job to do and if you are unable to perform that job you are making the military weaker, even if only slightly.
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SGT (Join to see)
I completely understand what your are aiming at sergeant, but 600-8-19 does talk about the waiver of the pushups and/or sit-ups event for a soldier, which does not put them out of standard due to their injury. Now don’t get me wrong, if this person is not doing the events, but playing rugby on the weekends, something needs to be done. But for the sake of a very good soldier who deserves nothing more then to be promoted, I want to find out if their passing APFT would count as a 300 to aid them in the promotion.
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SGT Joseph Gunderson
SGT (Join to see) I do and simultaneously do not agree. I understand the want to get a good Soldier promoted. However, recommending someone for promotion is a statement that says that the Soldier has demonstrated all of the requirements to be successful at the next grade. Being physically incapable of performing would immediately and irrevocably deny that. This is also why those who are in P status when medboarded often receive the promotion to their next grade without ever having been promoted. I am always for looking out for Soldiers - as an NCO it was my duty to ensure the "accomplishment of [the] mission and the welfare of my Soldiers" - but sometimes one must take precedence over the other; this requires a judgment call based on all of the important factors and the mission or Soldiers' welfare may win that argument in either direction in any number of situations.
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Soldier on permanent profile for alternate aerobic event can only get 300 if they can max the push up and sit-up event.
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