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I often wondered what that meant. It is on my dog tags - only because disciple wasn't an option. Seems to me that there are Christians on both sides of every issue - doesn't matter if it's politics, religion, government, bar fights, etc - in 2008, the census said 76% of the country was "Christian" - too bad that doesn't equate to disciple. I think Christian can mean anything you want it to mean, but if we are serious about saying "I'm a Christian", then we should define exactly what that means. If it means the same as disciple, I'm in - anything else, and I don't want to be a "Christian". If you want to know what a disciple is, it's VERY well defined - "Christian" is not - it's only used a few times in the bible and often to describe a group of people in a derogatory way.
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Religion Christianity
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 29
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Not only am I a "Christian", but I don't hate other "Christians" who interpret "Christ's Message" differently than I do. In fact, as far as I'm concerned, anyone who attempts to live by "Christ's Message" is a "Christian" - even if they don't know it.
I do, however, have some difficulty with those tax-free corporations who call themselves "Churches" and attempt to force everyone to follow their version of "Christ's Message" by acting in strict accordance with the dictates of a closed group of "Spiritual Leaders" who believe that "The Rules" don't apply to them and who have the "Moral Obligation" to "enlighten" others - even if that means sending someone else's children off to foreign lands to fight "The War For Peace" and/or simply exterminating anyone who doesn't agree with them.
The Bible admonished people to "turn the other cheek" - it doesn't say "stand there and let the other guy beat the crap out of you".
It also doesn't tell you to "run around in a mindless panic just because you have suffered 0.00008% casualties" the way America's "Christian Leadership" seems to want you to do.
I do, however, have some difficulty with those tax-free corporations who call themselves "Churches" and attempt to force everyone to follow their version of "Christ's Message" by acting in strict accordance with the dictates of a closed group of "Spiritual Leaders" who believe that "The Rules" don't apply to them and who have the "Moral Obligation" to "enlighten" others - even if that means sending someone else's children off to foreign lands to fight "The War For Peace" and/or simply exterminating anyone who doesn't agree with them.
The Bible admonished people to "turn the other cheek" - it doesn't say "stand there and let the other guy beat the crap out of you".
It also doesn't tell you to "run around in a mindless panic just because you have suffered 0.00008% casualties" the way America's "Christian Leadership" seems to want you to do.
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CMSgt Mark Schubert
Sir,
This is a great highlight to my point - as you mention, everyone can interpret "Christ's Message" differently and "anyone who attempts to live by "Christ's Message" is a "Christian""
With this as a definition, it's no wonder that 76% of the country would declare to be a Christian - because that can fit a lot of people.
The problem I have is it's pretty clear to me what a disciple is and who they were and what they did. There is little room for interpretation, which is OK for me. I am committed to following Jesus and being a disciple, but I really don't want to be part of a group of people who might be disputatious and unclear.
It sounds to me like you've had some bad experiences in "the church" - and I can perfectly understand that - I have experienced the same. I can tell you that when I was properly enlightened by the holy spirit, I was given a spirit of peace and love (grace too, but this is where I need some work!) :-)
Love is something that all churches should leverage - and anytime a church sends a message other than that (perhaps power or "if you don't do this, God will get you!"), they are hurting the faith of the people hearing the message.
I pray you will find a church where you can help grow the faith of others - that's really what I think the church should be all about - helping each other grow in faith. The more you help others grow in their faith, the more you will grow in your own.
Merry Christmas, Sir
This is a great highlight to my point - as you mention, everyone can interpret "Christ's Message" differently and "anyone who attempts to live by "Christ's Message" is a "Christian""
With this as a definition, it's no wonder that 76% of the country would declare to be a Christian - because that can fit a lot of people.
The problem I have is it's pretty clear to me what a disciple is and who they were and what they did. There is little room for interpretation, which is OK for me. I am committed to following Jesus and being a disciple, but I really don't want to be part of a group of people who might be disputatious and unclear.
It sounds to me like you've had some bad experiences in "the church" - and I can perfectly understand that - I have experienced the same. I can tell you that when I was properly enlightened by the holy spirit, I was given a spirit of peace and love (grace too, but this is where I need some work!) :-)
Love is something that all churches should leverage - and anytime a church sends a message other than that (perhaps power or "if you don't do this, God will get you!"), they are hurting the faith of the people hearing the message.
I pray you will find a church where you can help grow the faith of others - that's really what I think the church should be all about - helping each other grow in faith. The more you help others grow in their faith, the more you will grow in your own.
Merry Christmas, Sir
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COL Ted Mc
CMSgt Mark Schubert I'll deal with your last point first. I never had a bad experience in "the church". What happened was that I finally learned a lot of the extent by which "God Inc." had replaced "The Church" (all of them).
If you can get "God Inc." out of the "retail religion business" then the world is going to be in one hell of a lot better condition. Those who "receive the call" do just that - but the ones who work their way the highest up the organization chart are the ones who realize and implement the best income generating business plans.
Once I realized that it simply wasn't worth my time to attempt to find someone else to tell me what "God wants you to know." and started listening to myself, I got a whole lot less twisted about the whole "relationship of man to God" business and realized that everyone was granted their own personalized means of enlightenment and that 70+% of ALL "religious doctrine" involved not much more than the universal rules for living in harmony with your neighbour with the remaining 30-% generally consisting of about 20+% elementary food and sanitation rules applicable to nomadic cultures with no means of refrigeration and no knowledge of bacteriology plus "breeding laws" that helped insure that fathers knew who their children had actually been sired by and/or prevented the setting of recessive genes that had negative survival value with the remainder consisting of admonitions to give money to the church.
I have no problem with who Christ's thirteen disciples were or what they did. HOWEVER there have been many "disciples" since then. Look around you and you will see them. They are the people who live honest lives while striving to do their best for their families and neighbours. They might not even know that they are "disciples".
In fact, on reflection, I'm not even sure if I like the term "disciple" since a "disciple" is a follower and/or student while all of the world's progress has been brought about by the "teachers". Christ was a teacher, Moses was a teacher, Buddha was a teacher, Mohamed was a teacher (just to stick to the four that everyone will recognize).
"Follow Jesus and be a disciple" if that is your want - but if you really want to get the "Celestial Pat On The Back" don't limit yourself to being a follower, be a teacher (all the while remembering that other people are also teachers, that some students need to learn different lessons, and that teachers can (and should) learn from their students.
And, as my Jewish, Muslim, and Sikh friends say at this time of the year "Merry Christmas".
If you can get "God Inc." out of the "retail religion business" then the world is going to be in one hell of a lot better condition. Those who "receive the call" do just that - but the ones who work their way the highest up the organization chart are the ones who realize and implement the best income generating business plans.
Once I realized that it simply wasn't worth my time to attempt to find someone else to tell me what "God wants you to know." and started listening to myself, I got a whole lot less twisted about the whole "relationship of man to God" business and realized that everyone was granted their own personalized means of enlightenment and that 70+% of ALL "religious doctrine" involved not much more than the universal rules for living in harmony with your neighbour with the remaining 30-% generally consisting of about 20+% elementary food and sanitation rules applicable to nomadic cultures with no means of refrigeration and no knowledge of bacteriology plus "breeding laws" that helped insure that fathers knew who their children had actually been sired by and/or prevented the setting of recessive genes that had negative survival value with the remainder consisting of admonitions to give money to the church.
I have no problem with who Christ's thirteen disciples were or what they did. HOWEVER there have been many "disciples" since then. Look around you and you will see them. They are the people who live honest lives while striving to do their best for their families and neighbours. They might not even know that they are "disciples".
In fact, on reflection, I'm not even sure if I like the term "disciple" since a "disciple" is a follower and/or student while all of the world's progress has been brought about by the "teachers". Christ was a teacher, Moses was a teacher, Buddha was a teacher, Mohamed was a teacher (just to stick to the four that everyone will recognize).
"Follow Jesus and be a disciple" if that is your want - but if you really want to get the "Celestial Pat On The Back" don't limit yourself to being a follower, be a teacher (all the while remembering that other people are also teachers, that some students need to learn different lessons, and that teachers can (and should) learn from their students.
And, as my Jewish, Muslim, and Sikh friends say at this time of the year "Merry Christmas".
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SP5 Michael Rathbun
"God Inc." ... A close friend, when enquiring about someone's denominational affiliation, tends to ask "Ah, which national franchise? Or is yours a local independent business?"
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COL Ted Mc
SP5 Michael Rathbun Indeed, I tend to refer to them as "the local retail outlets".
Mind you, the VAST majority of the managers of those local retail outlets are actually very good, kind, caring, concerned, and compassionate people who do go out of their way to extend a helping hand to those in trouble or need.
Mind you, the VAST majority of the managers of those local retail outlets are actually very good, kind, caring, concerned, and compassionate people who do go out of their way to extend a helping hand to those in trouble or need.
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I know what you mean by the word "disciple," CMSgt Mark Schubert. I'm working on that aspect of my Christian walk. In fact, our church has small discipleship groups to help with just that.
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The term "Christian" was initially used in a derogatory sense that means "Little Christs". A great deal of the early first century church took on this term as a complement. After all, Christians are called to emulate Jesus. In this context, I am happy to be called a Christian. As for others, they will claim to be Christians just as Jesus said that many would claim, but He would never know them.
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